Used Preamp Recommendations Under $1500US

Thanks, but I don't need a DAC and would rather spend more on the preamp function.

 

Part of the appeal of both the Audio Research and Sonic Frontiers products is both companies still support their discontinued products.

 

So does Rogue Audio. You can also usually find a tech that will support any well made piece of gear. The trouble with aging gear is that usually becomes more frequent and expensive.
-Bill

 

Things may well have changed, but I found the Yamaha C4 to be a pretty nice preamp.

 

I have a Sonic Frontiers Line 1 on the way. It came in significantly under budget and I have been in contact at Chris Johnson at Parts Connexion about service and upgrade options.

There was an Audio Research SP3 available at a local estate auction. I thought maybe I could get a good deal with a limited bidder pool, but it ended up going for way over my budget and, given the age, will need a major service/update. So, I passed on that one.

 

Definitely recommend Audio Research, and get an "LS" line stage rather than a "SP" which is line stage with phono stage.

I really like my LS7 (and just posted a similar response in another thread).
Sounds really good with stock Sovtek, or JJ, or other cheap/modern tubes, but goes to another level with good Amperex or Telefunken tubes from the '50s and '60s (please avoid JAN tubes which are really microphonic in this unit)

 

I'll push back on that comment. My experience with ARC is rather extensive having owned a SP9, LS15, LS17, PH3, PH5, VS-55, and VSi-55. When I sold my SP9 it was over 20 years old. Never needed anything "serviced". It's about as reliable as a brand can be.

What you should do if you buy a used piece of gear (any brand/age) is open it immediately and have a look see. Check the electrolytic caps for bulges or leaking, look at the resistors, etc. When I bought my VS-55 used I was aghast at all the dust balls inside. When I informed the seller his response was, "pets". Anyway, just common sense advice.

 

I agree. The original tubes are good but bringing in some good old NOS tubes takes the ARC gear to another level IMHO.

 

The Sonic Frontiers Line 1 arrived about 3 hours ago. I installed the tubes and hooked it up to my system. It's sounding pretty great right now!

It came with Telefunken tubes in the V1 and LV1 positions, Sovteks in V2 and LV2 and Electro Harmonix tubes in V3 and LV3. I know nothing about tubes, so I don't know if that's good, bad, or somewhere in between.

 

Hi John,
I too have had as many ARC pieces. It isn't brand specific, rather my commentary was on the design specs of the components. Every amp maker has a limited choice of components, and each component has its own limitations. I can tell you from much experience that you can't tell electrical stability by visual examination. All components have design parameters that change with time and temperature. As such, older components, and perhaps especially those in vacuum tube electronics, are always suspect for damage, regardless of how pristine they may appear. Electrolytic caps are especially prone to failure due to their unique structural properties and to the stresses of their applications. Further, just because a component works today and seems to sound OK does not mean that it is performing as it should or that it will last even another minute. In the end, as the owner of a piece of gear, it's your call as to if and when you have it serviced. It's my job as an experienced technician to inform you of potential consequence of ignoring it.
-Bill

 

MCM_Fan,
I believe V1 and V2 will make the most impact on the sound but I'd want the other 4 to at least be the same brand.
Contact PartsConnexion and ask them to hook you up with a set of tubes for that.

 

Congrats - Just enjoy it as is and then down the road if you feel you need to improve something try some other tubes. The thing with tubes is that while someone might like a Mullard it doesn't mean that a Mullard will sound better in your particular amp. If the tube is known say to be a warm-sounding tube that might help in a KT88 amp that generally lean bright. So it balances the amp better but if the amp is known to be warm to begin with, then the warm tube could make it sound dull and lifeless.

 

I remember ARC having issues with their power amps back in the 90s for high failure rates. The thing with all these stories though is that it impacts a lot of companies - they buy a batch of caps or resistors from some source and that batch turns out to be garbage. But no one really looks at that they blame the amp manufacturer because the consumer bought an amp, not a cap or resistor. It's the same with cars when the airbags had to be recalled - I mean there are only so many suppliers so if the supplier brings their airbag to a Toyota and they test it and it passes - they place an order for 5million and then the company cheaps out or does something shady and then Toyota is on the hook for irate customers when the airbag company really should be getting the brunt of the blame.

 

I sent Chris Johnson an email yesterday as soon as the amp arrived. I asked for his input on the tubes that came with it.

I don't have a schematic, but I believe V1, V2 and V3 are for the right channel and VL1, VL2 and VL3 are for the left. I think that's why the tubes it came with are in pairs (i.e. V1 and VL1, V2 and VL2, V3 and VL3).

 

Pass Labs Aleph P | Solid state | Morton Grove, Illinois 60053 | Audiogon

 

You can get the manual for it here:
Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Line Level Preamplifier Manual | HiFi Engine

I don't know if it'll tell you which tube does what but Chris certainly could.

 

Don't be afraid to move things around to different stages; this is how I learned to hear the problems with tired tubes (I have two in particular, one hisses and one just sounds like crap. This helped me realize that the ElectroHarmonix and JJ tubes weren't "all that". Also, only one half of these dual triodes is used in certain positions; a crappy tube in one socket may be a great tube in another socket.

 

I advocate that gain tubes and cathode followers do not need to have anything in common, but it is much easier to stick with matched pairs/quads when starting the tube journey.
First learn what a proper setup sounds like, then intentionally sway out tubes with crap ones and listen for the obviously negative changes.
You don't need super fancy tubes in all four positions (in an ARC LS7), but it doesn't hurt.

 

I keep a couple of obviously imperfect tubes on hand for testing, but did return rather than keep the kinda spendy JAN tubes that really ring when the chassis is tapped with a finger nail.

 

Per the advice of Chris Johnson at Parts Connexion (and what I read online), I moved the Telefunken E88CC Gold Pin tubes to the V2 and LV2 positions. Wow! What a difference. I have no idea why the previous owner had them installed in the V1/LV1 positions. It makes no sense. The difference is stunning

 

Nice! Try other tubes! Ive heard so, so many types. They each have their own little tiny voices. All different.

Personally I hate Russian and Chinese tube. At their very best they're just so so and im Always happier with anything else.

Yugoslavian tubes Were very good, before the war destroyed all the plants. They've never been the same.
vintage German tubes like the Telefunkens are dry. Very good technically but dry and sterile. If you like that sort of thing you'll Love them!
Siemens tubes are better to my taste but still a bit sterile and again, very clear and precise.
British tubes have soul and rhythm usually. More bass, sweeter mids and nice extended highs.
Holland tubes are some of my favorite. Cross between a British and German tube in the right ways with a bigger soundstage.
American tubes are all over the place. Some of the best and some of the worst but generally are neutral. Except Amprex made in NY which are more like a Holland tube.
Newly made American tubes are good just not cheap. For a few bucks more you can just get a better vintage tube.
Did I say I hate Russian tubes? Horrible crap! Usually Microphonic and if not are so sterile makes me feel like a eunuch.
In a nut shell.