Verve Master Editions

I've been picking up quite a few of these lately...Night Train, Getz/Gilberto, Ella & Louis, and a handful more. So far I have been really impressed with this series, I hear there are a few stinkers though.

So whats the general opinion on these discs? Any that stand out as particularly good or bad? Are there any jazz labels around today beating verve in the remastering department? Discuss!

 

I have 12 to 15 VMEs. Some of these reissues sound very good, e.g. Peterson albums, Kenny Burrell's Guitar Forms, Peterson Meets Ben Webster, and some Jimmy Smith CDs. Others are mildly irritating in upper mids and the top end, like most Ella Fitzgerald's songbooks. The brass section seems to have little weight, but a lot of glare instead.

One that was really bad, again because of the screeching highs, was Ben Webster and Associates.

 

It's a mixed bag. I end up with 3-4 Verve Master Editions a month or more. A lot of them are great, but there are quite a bit of them like "Basie In Paris" and "Bird & Biz" are suprisingly bright and intense.

But that also goes for many jazz titles on other labels too. I picked up the 1996 remaster of Lambert, Hendricks & Ross 3/on/2 Columbia set. The 1st LP must have been fairly bright because it's almost un-natural in the high-end.

Everybody's going for bright and shiny these days.

 

For the most part, I like them. If money is no object, there may be a better version out there (DCC Ella-Cole Porter or some of the Japanese versions of other titles), but I find most of these acceptable. Of course, most of what I've heard on Verve is pretty good (for the price) compared to other labels.

 

Hi,

I love the Verve "Master Edition" and also their cheap "By Request" Series - if you like the brazilian touch ("Getz/Gilberto"), the Luiz Bonfà and Marcos Valle discs are a must. Great Music!

But, I admit, there are some I dislike, e. g. Billie Holiday's "Songs For Distingué Lovers". Veeeeery bright and almost thin sounding (that's especially disappointing since some of the songs are disc transfers; in combination with this kind of mastering they are sometimes hard to listen to.) I'm not sure what to think about their Ella Fitzgerald releases at the moment: The "Rodgers and Hart Songbook" sounds very clean and dynamic, but also has a strange artificial flavor about it. That's why I hesitate to buy the newly remastered "Gershwin Songbook" - has anyone here heard it?

Despite of these minor disappointments, most of the CDs I had the chance to compare to original LP pressings are nothing less than outstanding, because they are as close as it gets in tonality and stereo imaging. The Getz/Gilberto and Astrud Gilberto/Walter Wanderley releases are particularly pleasing. Although Verve constantly gets bashed for always re-releasing the same music over and over again: By and large they've done a good job with all of their most recent series (the ones that come in a digipak case).

Arne

 

I have the VME Gershwin 4CD box, but I still have to find the time to listen to them thoroughly.

An earlier CD collection from Ella's Gershwin songbook on Verve was rather bright, but not as bright as some VMEs. Sarah Vaughan Sings Gershwin was a good reissue too.

Since you are in Germany, I wonder if you have, or thought about getting the Verve/Speakers Corner LP set of the Gershwin songbook.

Incidentally, if anyone has opinions on that set, I would appreciate those.

 

SVL,

yes, I thought a moment about getting the Speakers Corner box set. I didn't because a) I have the early 1980s U.S. two LP set which sounds great b) a year ago I came across a near mint 1970s (french pressing) box for EUR 5 - a cheapo because the booklet was missing c) the Speakers Corner box retails for a lofty EUR 200. I am simply not willing to shell out that much money for music I already have in good enough quality. I would, probably, if it had been remastered by SH .

Arne

 

Speaking of Verve Remasters, does anyone have the early nineties Ella Fitzgerald Songbook Box Collection. This is the 16 cd set in the red box that includes the entire "Songbook" recordings. I know from a musical standbook it is very good but can anyone tell me about the sound quality.

Thanks

 

KLM,
I believe Mark, the poor guy who ran the pathetic Verve forum, once stated that the 16-disc Ella box used the same 20-bit masters as the individual releases (or more accurately, the individual releases used the same masters as the box).
Ray

 

polarity reversal

I haven't varified this myself, but several guys on the Verve and Blue Note forums report good results reversing the polarity of some of the Verve and RVG reissues. The recent Armstrong discs were supposed to have benefitted very well, with improved bass and a less glarey high end.
Anybody here try this?

 

I love the Antonio Carlos Jobim album "The Composer of Desafinado Plays". I think the VME edition is remixed from the original 3-track tapes - while this will not produce a drastically different mix from the original it will have a different sound to the original LP master.

The sound quality is OK. Actually, I always thought it sounded a little thin and plasticky (?) in the top end, but since I got my SCD-1 it sounds fine (as do many other CDs I thought weren't that great!).

 

What are opinions on the MFSL version of "Basie In Paris" in comparison?

 

All,

Overall, I am very pleased. Their Getz/Gilberto knocks the socks off the other versions available. I certainly appreciate the efforts put into the series, the packaging and the bonus tracks. I agree that some appear very bright, but I have nothing to compare them to either. Through the series, I have discovered some great music--always a joy to my ears.

Bob

 

Interestingly, quite a few CDs from both the "By Request" and the "Master Edition" series seem to enjoy a limited run on Speakers Corner vinyl at the same time (I've seen titles by Marcos Valle, Dizzy Gillespie, and Cal Tjader). I have heard none of them so far, since they are quite expensive and I feel it cannot possibly be that much of an improvement over their low-price CD counterparts. Any idea who mastered them from which tapes? I'd be glad to hear from someone who did a comparison.

Arne

 

I've quite a few of the VMEs, and they are mostly pretty good.

Re "April in Paris" - I don't have it on VME, just the MOFI, which I like a lot - but it doesn't have all the bonus tracks found on the VME.

I do have "Ben Webster Meets Gerry Mulligan" on both VME and MOFI gold disc - it's an interesting comparison. I like both actually. The MOFI is a little smoother, and perhaps fuller bass (as you might expect). But the VME compares very favourably, and you get 2 discs worth of music. I would have preferred if Verve had not run all of the alternate takes one after another, but there is some awesome stuff on the VME.

At least they didn't no-noise the music on the VME series. Some do sound a bit bright though. The recent "Oscar Peterson Plays the Harold Arlen Songbook" (2LP on 1CD) I found a bit disappointing. The 1959 tracks sounded OK, but the early 50s versions from disc tansfers were aweful. Now I can live with disc transfers if they are all that's available, but much better sounding versions of some of those tracks are on the 2CD "The Song is You: Best of the OP Songbooks" from 1996. Go figure.

Among VMEs that I really like:
OP Meets Ben Webster
Ellington/Hodges - Back to Back
Stan Getz - Jazz Samba (sorry Steve, haven't heard yours yet)
OP Plays Ellington Songbooks

 

The Ella songbooks 16-disc box set pre-dates the individual 20-bit issues. Unless they've replaced the discs in the box (which I can't imagine they have, since the individual issues came out gradually over the succeeding years), those are older transfers. I personally haven't heard them.

The 20-bit Ella/Gershwin set sounds beautiful--smooth, non-fatiguing, transparent, uncolored. I think it's the best of the Verve Ella songbook reissues by a big margin.

Highest recommendation for musical content (obviously) and for sound. One of the great titles in the entire catalog.

MK

 

A couple more that deserve comment
Oscar Peterson Trio - We Get Requests is a wonderful recording.
On the Town with the Oscar Peterson Trio has way too much crowd noise - you can barely hear the players.
The VME of Roy Eldridge - Swingin' on the Town is a gem in both sound and music.

 

Kayaker, I agree with you re the On the Town release, but the music is fabulous. I think the Eldridge one you mentioned was a Verve Elite Edition, which are limted and harder to find than the VME's.

The VEE series has some great titles, a bit more diverse than the VMEs. I particularly like:
Ed Thigpen - Out of the Storm
Clark Terry - Clark Terry
Ray Brown - Bass Hit
Herb Ellis and Jimmy Giuffre
Harry "Sweets" Edison - The Swinger and Mr Swing

Geez, verve have such a great back catalog. Such a shame that it;'s being run by morons. The VEE series is now dead, and VMEs are few and far between. We can only hope the Japanese subsidiary keeps putting out stuff.

 

Thanks Paul - I stand corrected the Roy Eldridge is a VEE.
I will check out the other VEE's on your list.

 

I especially like the Getz/Gilberto MFSL. That was done VERY well.

 

I can't stand the MFSL because of the bloated bass, but I'm talking about the CD of course. My 1960s U.S. pressing sounds very much like the VME. My 1970s or early 80s (?) german pressing sounds almost like the MFSL, which was a major disappointment -I thought it should have been an improvement.

Arne