Very surprised to not really like the Brio-R

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Lebowski, Sep 29, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    If you want to be impressed with sound quality by a product that excels in everything it is built to do, it would be worth considering a Belles Aria.
     
    sturgus, cut-out and SirMarc like this.
  2. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore


    [​IMG]
     
    timind, ubiknik and Lebowski like this.
  3. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    I recently heard one of these and it's a very nice sounding integrated
     
  4. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston

    ROTFLMAO


    :D:D:D
    :pineapple::pineapple::pineapple:
     
    action pact likes this.
  5. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think that what may be most clear is that you’ve got a perfectly good - very good - integrated amp that provides excellent output, but you’re trying to significantly better the thing without spending at least twice as much money (i.e., the US$5,000-$7,000 range). I don’t think it’s possible despite all the purchase confirmation bias that many audiophiles frequently express with statements like, “Unbelievable! This thing punches w-a-a-a-y above its weight and easily bests all the vastly more expensive amps I auditioned(...)!” and so on. The various integrated amp makers at Harman International, Yamaha, Rega Research, etc., etc., etc., that produce products to hit a certain retail price point really are actually competing with each other. While the various models at a given price point may vary in their sound, in the US$2,500-$3,500 range they’re all excellent.

    Using a $700 Rega Brio-R or Brio 2 as some sort of gauge to judge the significantly more expensive Rega Elex-R is unrealistically difficult to do because it literally doesn’t tell you enough about the Elex-R and how it’s voiced. What auditioning the Brio did tell you was that your HK990 is a very good integrated that the Brio really can’t touch. It’s safe to say that considering the Elex-R (IMO, an integrated that only fills a price point between the Brio and the Elicit), Elicit-R, Parasound New Classic, Parasound Hint 6 (IMO, a lamentable release by the company) the Yamaha A-S1100 and most of the other $2500-$3500 integrated amps (both SS and tubes) as replacements for your HK990 is a pointless sideways move.

    If you want to take a big step up from the very good HK990, I think you’ve got to spend a lot more money. The Yamaha A-S2100 is a big step up, as are the Anthem STR, Naim Supernait 2 (or the new Supernait 3), Simaudio Moon 340i (an excellent value), Luxman L509X, Ayre Acoustics EX-5, and a couple of others. They’ll all make you forget about your HK990, and that’s saying something significant because (again) it’s still a very good integrated amp.
     
    DeRosa, Clay B, bever70 and 8 others like this.
  6. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    Yeah, just step up and get the Yamaha A-S2100. Have you ever seen anyone post their regrets about having one?
     
    Lebowski likes this.
  7. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston

    Thanks for weighing in. I always find your posts to be thoughtful and well-informed. I think you may be right.

    FWIW I was simply hoping to get a taste of the Rega house sound, if there is such a thing.
     
    audiolistener likes this.
  8. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    As I don't have has much time as I used to to listen to as much gear I usually not try to listen to the flagship products in the line and then if good I will work my way down to my price level.

    The Brio isn't something I particularly like and in general not much if anything at the price level does it for me. I would sooner opt for a surround sound receiver from Marantz than entry level integrated amps from NAD, Arcam, Rega, Rotel, Cambridge. It's not that these won't be a bit better but only a bit - and you lose a staggering amount of features to the point it's just not worth the sacrifice IMO.

    I absolutely believe in the house sound experience (sans speakers). If you hear an all Linn or Rega system and you don't love the speakers it will give you a negative view of the whole company - and speakers are often a hit or miss thing depending on the room set-up etc. The Linn Kan isn't going to tell you all you can get out of the LP12 for example.

    I don't think the Rega amps are much to get too excited about but as they say YMMV. My general rule is to try and get a good tube amplifier or in lieu of that a class A SS amplifier.

    The Line Magnetic 211IA ($1,600) off the top of my head would be entry level minimum for a fully functional (should have enough power) integrated amplifier that also has a remote. If you can live without a remote and 12 watts is enough the KingKo KA 101 ($1,149) which finally has US distribution - Big Ear Audio in the USA - sounds even better.

    Otherwise I would probably buy a good surround receiver.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If you have sensitive enough speakers I think you will find either of these will stave off most class A/B Solid State amplifiers at considerably higher price points.
     
  9. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    Great build quality, great features, great price ... sound = not so great IMO. It's hard to find a better bang for the buck product performance wise ~ that's made in a country where a worker still earns a good wage though.
     
  10. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    It seems you perceive an improvement in sound quality as some sort of effect instead of a difference in subtlety and nuance more discriminating ears perceive. Perhaps as Richard Austin suggested you should seek out a modestly priced AV receiver since these come pre-programed with multiple DSP modes that may help you achieve the effect you desire.
     
    Ivand likes this.
  11. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I am told the more expensive Rega amps starting around £1500 are very good but OP you may just not like the Rega sound. Years ago I auditioned their earlier offerings and didn't like them. Brio seems to get more positive reports. Why not try a relative entry level Musical Fidelity amp such as the M2si which may be more to your taste? If it gives a decent flavour of my M6500i it will be a good buy. MF sound retains some warmth but revealing fine detail. Maybe a better match for KEFs? MF are actually now cheaper in USA than UK.
     
  12. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    If you heard a Brio you already have a taste of the Rega sound. If you didn't like that, the upper models do not have a fundamentally different flavour. Try something that sounds quite different as suggested in my previous post. I have to say were solid state is concerned this forum appears to revolve around the world of Rega or Yamaha for some reason. I think getting a decent valve amp with enough power is difficult below £1000.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  13. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think the Elex-R builds directly on the Brio.

    The Elict-R though sounds markedly different and better in every way. The big-deal Osiris is a healthy chomp on the true high-end. It’s very hard to pin down a house sound as you move into the Elicit and impossible with the Osiris. The Osiris in particular - like all great integrated amps - takes on the character of the music being played rather than imposing its own character on the music.
     
    KT88 and Ivand like this.
  14. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Ah yes, that Anthem STR is wonderful! I’ve heard it and would love to own it, but I suspect I’d find divorce papers tucked into the owners manual!

    As for the A-S2100: in what ways do you see it being better than the 1100? I understand it has a discrete headphone amp and a balanced input, but neither of those are important to me.
     
    audiolistener likes this.
  15. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    I’ve never heard the 1100 so I’m just going on faith; the difference in sound quality between the 2100 and 3000 wasn’t minimal, so I’m guessing the same is true for the 1100/2100. And the differences surely aren’t limited to just the headphone amp and balanced circuitry. The A-S2100 is simply a stellar integrated, especially at its price point.
     
  16. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Well we can’t have that . . .

    Basically, the A-S2100 beautifully drives anything and everything I try, including some of the most difficult speakers with widely varying impedance profiles, strange phase angles at various frequencies, and every other speaker problem I run into. The A-S1100 offers some of that versatility and stability too, but the A-S2100 provides more of it. I find the A-S2100 to be just a bit more responsive, it has more headroom, and to my ears there’s a subtle improvement in acoustic instrument timbres over the already very good A-S1100.
     
    jusbe and lonelysea like this.
  17. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Yes, many don't realize it but the 2100 has a larger power supply by about 8,000 microfarads. I wouldn't think that would make much practical difference but I suppose it could. Sometimes my 500 sounds more ballsy than my 1100 despite having only 12,000 microfarads total and a puny transformer by comparison.
     
    lonelysea likes this.
  18. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Right. Forgot about the power caps. 22,ooo microfarads vs. 18,000. Not nothing, but I wasn’t sure it would be that dramatic an improvement. But I guess it is approximately 22%. I’m guessing that’s per channel.

    Best reputable prices I see are $1600 and $2500. Is it a $900 improvement? I guess that’s in the eye of the beholder.

    So my usual dealer, who sells Yamaha, says that they’ve been able to “make it cry mercy,” whatever that means. Never asked him to clarify. Not sure if they were referring to the 1100 or 2100, or quite possibly both. They don’t seem overly fond of this product line. They seem to prefer the Naim Nait 5si over the 110o, and maybe even the 2100.
     
  19. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    My bad, I was thinking the 2100 had 20,000 microfarad caps. So a total of 88K vs 72K. The latter is still a lot more than most integrateds have, including the Naim line.

    I have yet to hear my 1100 clip that I'm aware of, even with my Maggies, but I don't listen at concert volumes.

    If you have the space for separates, I think that's really the next frontier for a big improvement over your HK. Though, it may depend on what you value most. I preferred the Rogue CMII to the Stereo 100 even though the latter provided better bass and resolution with a SS preamp driving it. I'd bet at least 50% of listeners would've preferred that separates system to the CMII, but for me, the CMII was better due to its tube bloom and musicality.

    Now I'm torn between trying a separate tube or SS amp with my new Van Alstine preamp. One can get Van Alstine separates for about roughly the same price as the 2100. But my experience is that Yamaha amps produce a unique timbre that I'm afraid of losing.

    Anyhow, pairing a separate preamp with my 1100 makes it sound more powerful and takes it to a whole new level, even with my Pre-Box S2 Digital.
     
    Lebowski likes this.
  20. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I’m a serious fan of Naim, and have repeatedly sung the praises of the Supernait 2 (and more recently the Supernait 3. I think that to my sense of hearing the Supernait 2 was definitively the best integrated amp in the world at its price point, and the Supernait 3 seems to be on its way to continuing that supremacy. I have the Supernait 2 in one of my two main systems and it’s currently displaced by a Supernait 3 that I’m auditioning.

    To my ears, the Yamaha A-S2100 can compete with the Supernait 2 in most areas that count, something that I think is a tremendous accomplishment for Yamaha at its price point notably lower than the Supernait 2. The A-S3000 goes toe-to-toe with the Supernait 2 without a doubt, and to some audiophiles exceeds the stellar Supernait 2 in many ways. Despite your dealer’s apparent preference for the Naim 5Si, IMO it doesn’t quite reach the same class as the A-S2100, although the 5Si still exhibits some of the superb sound produced by the Supernait 2.
     
  21. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    We all like what we like, and that's fine.

    My impression of the Brio-R is it has a very fulsome, warm presentation, with a somewhat delicate top end. I happen to prefer components with a thicker character, but it is still noticeable to me, and I can understand why it might not be what someone else finds preferable.

    What I don't quite get is the description of the Brio-R being laid back or slow. Even with my warm-ish Grado cartridge and Spendor SP3/1R2's, the Brio-R is reasonably punchy. I wonder if its thicker tonal presentation is what you are negatively reacting to?
     
    bhazen and Lebowski like this.
  22. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Yes, I think I tend to prefer brighter tones, which perhaps my brain equates with speed and energy. Thus the perception of slowness.

    It's entirely possible that I've chosen the wrong words to describe what I'm hearing. When you say "thicker tonal presentation" that does make sense to me. I wonder if the fact that I'm running it through floorstanding speakers might be partially to blame for the divergence in our experiences. You are 100% welcome to come over and listen. I still have my LS50 hanging around. Perhaps I should drag them out and see what they sound like on the Brio. It's about time I sold them, so need to check them out anyway...
     
    action pact likes this.
  23. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Let me know when you're ready to sell the 2!
     
  24. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Any buzz/hum/hiss from the Supernait2?
     
  25. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Although I've never heard the Brio-R I did own one of its predecessors, the Brio-3. The Brio-3 is memorable to me because it was such a disappointment; just a flat, uninviting sound was my impression.

    The reason I'm jumping in here is I recently purchased a Simaudio i7 integrated amp which was their top-of-the-line integrated a few years ago. I bought it after falling for the sound of Simaudio's i3.3 int amp. No reason to go into the particulars, but I've always believed you could get the same sound from a manufacturer's amps anywhere in their line. NOT TRUE.

    Of course it may be confirmation bias, as I firmly believe this is a reality, but man am I hearing familiar music in a different light. Last night I listened to Jorma Kaukonen's Blue Country Heart, an album I'm very familiar with, and man it was revelatory.
     
    Agitater and Lebowski like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine