Very surprised to not really like the Brio-R

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Lebowski, Sep 29, 2019.

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  1. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    I think you're right. I don't know off the top of my head what their power specs are, but I'm using a 150w @ 8 ohm Rotel on them right now (with a REL sub).
     
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  2. Echoes Myron

    Echoes Myron Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Yeah if I didn't need a little more power I could live with the Elicit-R/KEF Reference 1 combo forever. Such a wonderfully accurate, detailed, and perfectly balanced sound.

    Previously used the Elicit to drive LS50s. Equally good match for tone, but the Refs are a little nore power hungry. I think the Brio would be great for LS50s but maybe not enough power for Reference.
     
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  3. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    The Brio-R was pretty decent with the LS50's, but the A-S2000 was a big leap in quality, to my ears. I preferred that match to the Line Magnetic 518ia I had for a bit.
     
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  4. Echoes Myron

    Echoes Myron Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Interesting. I have the LM518 with the LS50s in my office system and I am absolutely in love with the sound.
     
  5. matteos

    matteos Stereotype

    Location:
    US
    The KEF R series are nominated as 8ohms but most of the bass runs at 4ohms. I don't know much about this stuff but I'm thinking if the amp doesn't have an adequate enough power supply it might be a difficult pairing.
     
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  6. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    I demoed the rega elicit r and the Cronus Mag Dos beats that one by a mile too.
     
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  7. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    excellent post pointing out the variables in amplifier power requirements.
    unfortunately there is also the dilemma that rated power among different qualities of amplifiers is simply not the same unless verified by testing. am amplifier rated for 100 WPC @ 8ohms both channels driven at .01% THD full bandwidth (an important spec!) all else being equal can sound a lot more dynamic and robust than an amplifier rated at 100 WPC @ 80hms both channels driven at 1% THD @ 1KHZ ! And I mean a LOT more powerful. Comparing distortion and bandwidth at rated power tells a lot more than just a power spec. That first amp could possibly deliver 200 WPC @ 80hms @ 1% THD @ 1Khz. There is also the consideration of how much power both of those amplifiers can deliver at reduced loads e.g. 6ohm, 4ohm, etc.
    You have to pay attention to the details and even then an amplfier can sound more powerful at a given rating.
     
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  8. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Hmmmmm interesting.

    Unfortunately there’s no place here to demo Rogue stuff.
     
  9. zonto

    zonto Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Goodwin’s High End in Waltham: Goodwin's High End - Products
     
  10. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Oh yeah, those guys. Didn't realize they sell Rogue. Bought some used DynAudios there once. Thanks. Wonder what the chance is they'll have a leftover CMII...
     
  11. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    that 518 was my favorite amp I’ve owned. Loved it with my Snells and I hope to have it, or something similar, again. I just thought the A-S2000 had a special synergy. The Yamaha mellowed out the (IMO) slightly hard tweeter of the LS50 while also having a nice grip, but organic-sounding grip on the low end.

    It’s been a bit and my aural memory sucks from hour to hour, so take my comments with a grain of salt. That’s my best recollection.
     
  12. G B Kuipers

    G B Kuipers Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    A good point made earlier in this thread by Richard A.: are you really sure that finding the right amplifier is key here? I have been through this myself. If you are not satisfied with the sound of your system, first make sure that you have the speakers and source that you really love. Otherwise comparing amplifiers will turn in to an endless quest for the unreachable. Yes, you will hear differences between amps, but you will not reach satisfaction.

    I have to admit, having found peace in my own ten year speaker quest with a lovely pair of Harbeth SHL5, that the differences between my Naim and Yamaha amplifiers don't seem as significant as they used to. On previous speakers these amps sounded very different and always a little 'off' in some way or another. Now, with my SHL5s, I still hear differences in the amps' presentation, but suddenly both Naim and Yamaha are convincing and natural enough for me to accept as 'right'.
     
  13. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    So, interestingly enough I was able to find a demo unit of the CM II for sale locally! Will be going tomorrow to check it out.

    I may start a new thread, but one issue I had with my old Rogue Sphinx v2 was that when using the remote to adjust volume I would hear a faint clicking noise in the background. I sold that amp a couple years ago, but the dealer I bought it from recently told me that was normal on the Sphinx, and there was quite a bit of gear that makes similar sounds on volume change.

    This seems surprising and odd to me. Anybody have any thoughts?
     
  14. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    sorry i do not use the remote on my CMII. if there are clicks it could be because of stepped increments and a linear volume control, which is actually a plus.
     
  15. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    I owned a Cambridge Audio amp a few years ago that did that. Very annoying, and it was their top integrated.

    Also, I'd like to say I agree with the argument @G B Kuipers made above.
     
  16. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Many preamp and integrated amp designers use volume controls with stepping, which is what makes the clicking noise. It is inherent to the mechanical operation of the motorized control. Other motorized controls use a different approach and operate silently. Those 'clicky' stepped controls are reputedly the best quality for many applications.
     
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  17. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The CMII does not use a stepped attenuator. Unfortunately, it and the Sphinx have a low-end Alps pot. The volume control noise is caused by the attached motor. That's not an issue as it only occurs during remote volume adjustments.

    The problem I have with their volume control is it uses an Alps pot that is either unreliable or some bad batches have been distributed. Both my CMII and Parasound Halo (use same Alps P/N) developed scratchy pots after a few months, both in the left channel. The date-of-manufacture for these amps was at least two years apart.
     
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  18. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    Unless they use an encoder which is absolutely silent and has no moving parts except for maybe the volume nob itself and they typically use a stepped resistor network which is on a chip.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  19. Blank Frank

    Blank Frank King of Carrot Flowers

    My new Vitus has a "clicky" volume control: Vitus use resistor networks rather than potentiometers or attenuators, 'cos he reckons it sounds better, It's a similar set up in all their pre-amps.
     
  20. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Just curious how you feel about the A-S1100 vs. the Cronus Magnum II? According to your profile you still have the Yamaha, while it looks like the CMII was sold? You mentioned problems with the volume pot. Any other problems or glaring issues? I know it's not exactly and apples-to-apples comparison (solid state vs. tube) but I'm curious how these two stack up against each other.

    I've never really been a tube guy but am going to give the CMII a listen today.
     
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  21. Echoes Myron

    Echoes Myron Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Let us know what you think. When I started down the tube path it didn't take long to realize I would never go back.
     
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  22. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I sold the CMII, because on balance, it wasn't any better than my 1100 and I wanted to make way for separates. The CMII developed the volume-pot scratch and it seems it was resolved by a light spray of Deoxit as it hadn't returned for quite some time.

    The 1100 has nearly as large a soundstage as the Cronus and possibly a little more detail. The Yamaha was certainly more linear in response and capable of at least half an octave deeper bass with my speakers. The Cronus placed vocalists toward the front of the soundstage while the Yamaha made them sound more distant. Overall, the Cronus has the more forward presentation. Of course, some of these differences can vary some, depending on the tubes one rolls into the CMII. I didn't go through a large variety of tubes, partly because some of the sockets were so dang tight that I was afraid of breaking something while trying to finesse the small signal tubes into them.

    As for musicality (yeah, that ambiguous term that's near impossible to describe), the Cronus had the upper hand.

    A big advantage of the Yamaha is it's easily upgraded with an inexpensive outboard preamp and the meters still work in that configuration. Once I hooked up my Pre-Box S2 Digital to the Yamaha's direct-amp inputs, I knew there'd be no going back

    Now that I've entered the world of decent separates I will probably sell my 1100 as well. It's really hard for me to imagine any sub $5K integrated matching the performance I'm getting with the separates. I've yet to hear an integrated that sounds as good anyhow.

    I'd bet you could put together a great system of separates for your budget if willing to buy pre-owned. Of course, if space is an issue, you can do a lot worse than a CMII or some of the other aforementioned.
     
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  23. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    my CMII volume control does have a slightly staticy spot at about 8:00 but it goes away after one half turn of the control.
    listen directly in the center "sweet spot" and see if the setup lets you hear the huge soundstage that the CMII is capable of. blows me away every time i sit down to listen.
     
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  24. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Thanks.

    What separates are you running? I couldn't quite figure it out in your profile page. Or do you just mean the Pre-box and A-S1100?
     
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  25. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I need to update my profile.

    Running the Van Alstine Fet Valve CFR into Exposure 3010S2 monoblocks:

    Help Me Choose Between two Amplifiers
     
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