Vincent SV237mk, Marantz PM14s1 or PM-KI Ruby?

So, I'm looking to upgrade my amplification, and trying to decide between these 3 integrateds. Right now, I am running a set of Polk Lsim 705's with a Marantz 2252B. I like the warmer tone of vintage Marantz but I am looking to upgrade to gain more resolution, detail, stage width & depth and dynamics. I'm sure, or at least hoping that these new amps would allow more to come through from my sources. My sources are currently a VPI Classic with 3D arm running through a Hagerman Cornet 2 phono and I have quite a few cartridges ranging up to a Dynavector 20x2h. I also stream 24bit 192khz digital through a Topping D50.

 

Vincent Audio, unless things have changed in the last couple of years, is just Chinese stuff re badged and maybe a little prettier. I’ve also never been a fan of the sound. I actually don’t know how it’s thought of on this forum but it’s not in the same league as Marantz reference gear. They’ve also had some pretty shady practices in the past using decorative vacuum tubes and some seriously false advertising.

The new Marantz gear sounds pretty nice especially for Class D amps. Personally though I’d look at the Yamaha as-2100. That is a truly amazing integrated amp especially for the price. Gives a lot of credence to the whole economy of scale argument in HiFi.

 

I'm actually a person that has both Marantz Reference as well as Vincent. First, the issue with Vincent and tube. They don't give great tubes when first purchased. If you get some soldered tubes , you get great Russian military rocket tubes that will out last you. You will never need to change them...They are strong and tough. Just remember they have a very warm sound to them so you have to consider that when replacing the tubes that aren't soldered in and removable. But that's if you get an amp that has both.

Second. Guys like russk will have you believe the issue with the caps happened recently. That issue happened over 15 years ago. What happened was a guy named Lukas who at the time was doing a lots of reverse engineering of various amps got one of Vincent CD players and noticed some fake cheap caps. At that time I owned Vincent and, I noticed my caps where the real deal, but spoke with Vincent via email. They said yes it happened, The shop in China got a hold of the caps and used them unawares and moved on from them. End of story. Vincent has not had an issue from that time on. Most of Vincent is made in China at a very respectable factory. But they also have a factory in Germany as well for some of the too amps. Notice russk didnt talks about Frank Blohbaum, the very well respected German engineer who designed some of Vincent too amps as well as those very expensive Thoren amps and preamps. Naw nothing wrong with Vincent amps.

Now having said that...I really don't have to speak about Marantz Reference. Marantz Reference PM 14s1 would be better in build quality, looks and performance than the SV-237mk. But....you would need to move up to the Vincent SV-700 and perhaps the SV-800 to get into the performance level of the Marantz Reference PM 14 s1. Dont think the SV 237 mk is a slouch because it's not. It's just not as refined as the Marantz and does have great build quality as well. I've had a Vincent preamp for 13 years and a Vincent power amp for 10 years and have had no issues. The sound difference in the two is also different. The Marantz has a nice warm tube sound and is very transparent but a tad dark that is very real like, I don't know how Marantz does it but the music come out with acurate tonal quality and is intoxicating. The Vincent has tubes so you can tune it for a warmer or livelier sound if youd like. I don't think you can go wrong with either brands.

The Ruby would is also excellent....its newer than the 14s1 and has class D amps that sound amazing as well. Ifn it was me in your position I'd go for the Marantz Reference PM 11s3.....if I could fine one in the states. Those Marantz Reference pieces become collectors Items it seems.

 

Have you seen Marantz Reference as well as Vincent in person? as Vincent does look go in person, but can't touch the Marantz Reference for looks.

 

It was more than just that.

Tubes for Everyman!

The guy a couple post down gives a run down on some of Vincent’s more famous issues. But I’m sure they are completely reformed now.

 

I have. I’ve always been a fan of Marantz and their Reference gear is gorgeous. Just prefer the look, feel, and sound of the as-2100. But I would take the Marantz Reference or Ki-Ruby gear over most of the integrateds out there.

 

Did you read post number 146 and those that followed? That was Frank the designer who was responding. And that was also me speaking with RGA....and I'm not going to rehash any of this stuff that actually happened years ago.

 

I feel ya!

 

At one point I was actually considering the Yamaha AS-2100...maybe I'll throw it into the mix again. I guess I was just thinking that it wouldn't compete with these other amps...if not in sound quality, maybe I was thinking it may be brighter or something along those lines.

What kind of difference would you expect between the two Marantz units? I have always been leary of Class D amps, but considering Marantz is using it in their Reference line made me curious. Also, the Ruby retails for $1K more than the PM-14s1 did.

 

Yamaha can be a bit bright...have to match with speakers carefully. The Ruby has trickle down from the 10 . It retails more because it's a new technology....and an 40th aniversry signature model for/by Ken. But the 14s1 will be just as enjoyable im sure.

 

The Marantz doesn’t sound like any other class D amp that I’ve heard. That and I think the topology is more like Marantz’s take on a Class D amp. They definitely aren’t using the standard Hypex modules everyone seems to like these days. Very warm sounding.

I thought the as2100 was going to be bright and thin as well. It’s not. Doesn’t sound anything like the older Yamaha gear. Mostly neutral, instruments sound right, maybe just a little on the warm lush side of things. And I’ve spent the last six years with tubes. Read some of the reviews out there on it. I was initially looking at the Parasound Hint 6. It’s a really nice sounding amp but compared to the Yamaha it was a bit on the dark, congested side and a bit noisy and the Yamaha’s build quality was just on another level. To me the PM-Ki was similar sounding to the Hint with better build quality and without the congestion and noise.

 

Proud owner of a Vincent 237MK here.

Those that continue to write Vincent gear off based on an article from 2007 or as some cheap Chinese product may need to get up to speed as to what they can offer these days.

Frank Blohbaum designed the internals for the 237MK. You can find out a bit about him online.

I'd love to be able to say I've had experience with the Marantz gear, but alas, I can't.
Best of luck with whatever piece you decide on.

 

My Yamaha 3000 is not bright. I do not think their new stereo integrated are bright.

 

I've traded for a few of the newer Yamaha units and to me, they are not bright by any means. I thought they were quite good.

With that said, I'm a Marantz Ref dealer for a reason, and the PM-KI Ruby is a fantastic piece of gear.

 

I enjoyed the Yammie amp I heard...could have been bad synergy between cables and speakers...who knows.

 

I auditioned the Yamaha at home and concluded it was very bright ( to my ears any way) brought the the Vincent SV-237MK instead, with fancy pants valves in, sounds great, with a Mullard M 8137 in the window position wow- wee sounds good!


That said not heard the Marantz.

 

Ok, so now my options are Vincent 237mk, Yamaha As-2100, Marantz PM-14s1, PM-KI Ruby, and a PM11s3 if I can find one used. I'd still like some insight from anyone who's heard the Ruby and can compare it to the more traditional Class A/B Marantz Reference amps.

 

Yamaha and Marantz are both of good build quality, with a lower noise floor than most integrateds in that class.

I don't have any direct experience with the 2100 but I found the A-S1100 to sound as good or better than many competing units up to $3.5K. It's also upgradable with an outboard preamp.

 

So, I think I've decided to put the PM-11s3 at the top of my list. One other option that I've found in my price range is a Mcintosh MA-6500. How would this compare to the PM-11s3?

 

I owned a SV 237 for over a year and I am sure that for the prize of it it is fairly good.
compared to my current Luxman L505 it still has a long way to go.
The bass and the soundstage of the Luxman are so much better.

 

Just a heads up as well, there's a couple of notable differences between the Vincent SV-237 and the revised Vincent SV-237MK.

The 237 has USB input, but no other digital inputs.

With the 237MK , the USB was ditched with digital coax & optical inputs added as well as a headphone connection.

 

I agree...two different classes of amps....a better comparison would be the L505 and the SV-700.

 

What would you say the general sound quality differences are between Marantz and Luxman?

 

Have you considered the Parasound Halo A 21? A member here @Litejazz53 I believe is using this combination and maybe will chime in. Also @SandAndGlass might chime in as well. I believe you want high current and high wattage to truly bring out what these speakers have to offer. You can also check this thread and maybe gain some information. Polk LSiM speakers 58% - 67% off..

 

I would say that both Luxman, Marantz and Parasound would give you exemplary listening pleasure. In regard to the Parasound, they just last forever. The A-21 is or was Parasound's premier amplifier. It's now been upgraded to the A-21+ which is more expensive than the A-21.

I do have my A-21 listed in the classifieds as I want to try the new JC-5, which is suppose to be Parasound's best amplifier ever.