Vintage Heresy speakers, a bargain?*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by andrew in denver, Oct 27, 2018.

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  1. andrew in denver

    andrew in denver Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Denver
    I've not even plugged them in as yet. I kinda feel like I should have somebody look at them just to be certain is all as it should be.
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  2. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    You got an excellent deal! Be proud of yourself! You jumped on it before anyone else could.

    Time is relative. Legacy Klipsch products are built to commercial standards and will likely last practically forever. That is just the way that they are and why so many people covet them.

    Buy a PrimaLuna, KT 88 based tube amplifier, they are clearing them out at Upscale Audio. Last I checked, they had a few units left with the silver face. The model is the Prologue Five, which is a power amplifier. You will need a preamp in you system to power them. If you don't have a separate preamp, then use the preamp output from what ever receiver or integrated that you have at present.

    Or just use your HH Scott receiver. I own two early 60' Scott integrated's, and they would both work fine with the Heresy's, which are efficient speakers.

    If you Heresy's sound find to you, then you don't have to go crazy, worrying about the caps. All that stuff about the caps have gone bad because speakers are vintage is a myth. If they have gone bad, then your Heresy's won't sound right in the first place. So, it they do, leave them alone.

    Back then, they used good quality caps. The caps are not of the electrolytic (polarized) type that are usually found in power supplies.

    Also, the caps are located within speaker cabinets, which are not subjected to high voltages and high heat, as are caps inside of an amplifier case.

    They should be used with only tube amplification! The tubes will take away the harshness that are inherent with these designs. These products were never intended for use with SS amps.

    There is one major thing that you can do with your legacy Heresy speakers, and that is, to replace the stock crossovers from the ones made by ALK Engineering.

    I can't speak for present day models, but all of the legacy Klipsch speaker's will greatly benefit from the crossover upgrades from ALK Engineering. I use these same make for Klipsch crossovers as upgrades for my vintage Altec Lansing A7's.

    The impedance curve is even more important when using tube amplification, as opposed to SS.

    There are two very powerful and unique features to the ALK crossover's.

    1) They provide a constant load of 8-Ohms back to the amplifier, at all frequencies. This is even more important of a considerations when employing tube amplification, because tubes and their related output transformer's are subject to significant power changes as the impedance changes with the frequency. This results in uneven sound levels.

    2) There is a balance between the 511B horn and the bass speaker volume wise that needs to be addressed. The ALK crossover's HF can be attenuated by adjusting different jumper settings on the autoformer (top left in the photo). This way you can get a proper balance between the HF and bass, for use inside any size or type of space. This has allowed me to get that perfect balance on the Altec's.

    From the ALK Engineering web site.

    ** Crossover network overview **
    The crossover networks from ALK Engineering are the only ones available that are true upgrades. Only those from ALK Engineering were designed utilizing knowledge gained from over 35 years of experience with filters to microwave frequencies (beyond 300 MEGA Hertz, like the one shown to the left), where the sort of filters you find in loudspeakers would be totally unacceptable.

    On the chart below, the AP12-500 is the crossover between the woofer and the squaker horn at 500-Hz., these are what I use with the Altec's, which rea the A7-500-8 model. The 500 is the crossover frequency and the 8 indicates that the impedance is 8-Ohms.

    The AP15-6000 is the crossover between the squaker horn and the tweeter, crossing over at 6,000 Hz. If you later install a super-tweeter.

    [​IMG]

    When you are ready, give Al a call and discuss your Heresy upgrade options with him personally.

    Al does not accept orders on his web site and all of his crossover networks are built to order. He speaker personally with every potential customer of the phone before he accepts any crossover order. Orders take between one to two months to fill. He takes several orders and then orders parts to fulfill them and builds them in the order received.

    I own vintage Alsec Lansing A7, Voice of the Theater speakers and I use ALK crossover's with them, rather than the stock Altec crossover's.

    The ones closest to the camera are ALK crossover's.

    [​IMG]

    I also used to own a pair of Klipsch KG 's. I have a pair of, now discontinued Klipsch WS-35's, which I was using for my rear towers,

    I also own custom Klipsch legacy La Scala's.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. krisjay

    krisjay Psychedelic Wave Rider

    Location:
    Maine
    A pair locally for 400 in lesser condition, you got a nice deal.
     
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  4. andrew in denver

    andrew in denver Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Denver
    That's GREAT info!! SO, I understand, you think I can leave everything as is with exception of the crossover upgrade?
     
  5. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    My Heresy's are about the same age. I replaced the tweeter diaphragms and crossovers (Bob Crites hardware,) about 10 years ago.
    Love them, they rock like no other. :righton:
     
  6. Michael Chavez

    Michael Chavez Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    he giving it or you solicit it?
    either way a mistake
     
  7. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I may get some custom outboard crossovers for my H-3s eventually. Not that I have issue with with the stock ones, just that I think the design has a lot of potential beyond stock form. Though I woundn't be surprised if the greatest improvement simply cones from locating them outside the cabinets. My first task is to damp the horns and cab walls with bitumen sheets. That will hopefully remove the very mild horn resonance.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  8. Carter DeVries

    Carter DeVries Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I’m not sure why you’re heading down the rabbit hole of refurb/upgrade without having plugged them in and listened to them first.
    As others have encouraged you to do, hook them up to the Scott, slowly turn up the volume, experiment with placement and just see how they sound as-is.
    This is probably a really great find/score but you won’t know much beyond their cosmetic condition until you take the logical step of playing them.
    Put the horse before the cart my friend. Enjoy!
     
    Wngnt90, Jacob29, bluesaddict and 2 others like this.
  9. Michael Chavez

    Michael Chavez Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    +1
    I am bewildered why the first thing out of many people's mouth is all the stuff you need to do
    I guarantee you the two 2uF caps in those will measure exactly 2uF with lower leakage on this day and are of a quality better than anything anyone's going to upgrade you to
    as for the big electrolytic on the woofer circuit? It's just a trash can anyway
    Expensive 'upgrade' network for your Heresys is a waste of money
    My experience anyway
     
  10. andrew in denver

    andrew in denver Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Denver
    Okay. Well, after a couple of the posts, I'll likely just leave them and enjoy them as they are!
     
  11. andrew in denver

    andrew in denver Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Denver
    I have listened to them for about an hour when I purchased them. I'm new to this whole thing and have had a number of suggestions - some already on this thread - to redo the crossovers, etc. As I just posted, think, for now, I'll leave them as they are!
     
    Mlle. Aurora likes this.
  12. Michael Chavez

    Michael Chavez Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    What is your system now?
     
  13. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I know I sure have !! LOL.
     
  14. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I never said or hoped to imply that the stock crossover's were bad. They are simply stock crossovers and their designs reflected knowledge if basic electrical circuitry, but little more. As times has progressed, so have electronic engineering knowledge.

    Not saying that there is anything wrong with your speakers. If you are happy and satisfied with them as they are, by all means, leave them be.

    If you want to take them to the next level, replace the crossover's. In vintage La Scala Design the bass bin is separate from where the horns sit. That area of the cabinet is open in the rear. Since the crossover's are not in the bass bins, there is no reason to change their location.

    But, I am with you. I would not mount crossovers inside an enclosure with bass speaker's.

    I would also like to comment, that I have equipment where I already "LIKE" the sound. In which case, I don't care about making "improvement's" which will make the sound "better", therefore changing the sound that I am already been used to listening to and like.

    Again, maybe the sound on an individual piece of gear has improved, but your system's synergy has already taken the original sound signature into account.

    My main pair of Altec A7's do not have Altec woofer's in them, they have Emminance Kappa Pro woofer's, which have about the same frequency response curve as the original Altec's, but can handle twice the amount of power.

    I have another pair of A7's, that are a custom build, with walnut veneer cabinets and woofer's which are made in Europe and cost twice as much as those from Emminance, about $350 vs. about $175 each, at the time.

    I could put these woofer's in my main A7's, but I won't (at least for the present time).

    By the way, the squaker horn (the big black thing) in the La Scala's is a dreadful awful thing. I am going to replace it with some NOS 811B horns and drivers. After that, I will be installing two ALK crossover networks in the cabinet. The second one is for the super-tweeter.

    [​IMG]


    Yes, that is correct. If they sound good, as I expect that they do, leave them alone, plug in your Scott receiver and enjoy them.

    They will sound excellent with your Scott receiver. If you ever want to get the upgrade itch, the ALK crossovers are the way to go.

    It is great to find vintage gear at bargain prices. I have been communicating with another member about his possible purchase of a pair of A7's that were specifically designed for the home and are being offered at very attractive prices.

    My comment here is to never equate the fantastic deal that you might have gotten of that item with the true value that item might hold. It doesn't get better than buying an old piece of gear ant bargain pricing, which allow you more wiggle room to restore and possibly upgrade that item.

    These are things that buyer's of vintage gear commonly do. Just changing something out with "newer and better" parts, just for the sake of doing so, is not necessarily good. You can loose the original character of that item being modded.

    Caps should be fine, as per my previous comments.

    And your considerable experience is?
     
  15. andrew in denver

    andrew in denver Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Denver
    I intend to hook them up a an 8080db
     
  16. Michael Chavez

    Michael Chavez Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Sansui?
     
  17. libertycaps

    libertycaps Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    '86 Heresy IIs were my first Klipsch speakers. Think i paid the same for them. Resold for $50 more. Enjoy 'em!
     
  18. bluesaddict

    bluesaddict High Tech Welder

    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    If I had just bought them I would hook them up, listen to them for at least two weeks playing all my favs from different genres. Then I might upgrade if I think the needed it. Just my .02 worth.

    filling out your profile would help all of us to help you better. :agree:
     
  19. andrew in denver

    andrew in denver Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Denver
    I like where your head is!! I'm going to leave them alone and enjoy them as they are! Thanks!!
     
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  20. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Don't fix what ain't broken.

    And, what exactly is an 8080db?

    Filling in your equipment is important when discussing sound quality and system issues.
     
    bluesaddict likes this.
  21. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    That would be my choice. I wouldn’t have recapped mine but the seller had already done did it. Again enjoy it’s a great score; your Scott’s should bring out the best in your new/old Klipsch.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  22. Michael Chavez

    Michael Chavez Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Not a contest, nothing to prove to you
     
  23. Scott in DC

    Scott in DC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    At $350 the Herseys are a steal. I bet they would sound excellent with your Scott components.

    Scott
     
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  24. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    I heard Hersey. It is ok, but Wharfedale W70s is better. W70 do not have strong bass like Hersey though. Spend a little over double the money and buy vintage Cornwall and never look back. I do understand some do not have $800+ to throw at Cornwall speakers.
     
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  25. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Not asking for you to prove anything to me. I would not be overly optimistic about that anyway, as I obviously do not share your viewpoint on the subject.

    Since you did, make it a specific point to interject your comments about;

    Since member's and non-member's do read the forum and place a value of the information and ideas that are contained within these threads, you might, as a general courtesy, when asked what your actual experience with upgraded crossover's might happen to be and why you take the point of view that you have taken. Responding to a question that is asked, when it is in general conflict with opinions that are held by other forum members, some of them who do place a value on upgrading their crossover's and other components of vintage Klipsch equipment is not unreasonable. with a some what more intelligent response that you have made.

    Looking at you profile, uou have just recently decided to become a member, as of October 9th of this year. Since that time, It appears that you have made all of 22-posts, including six in the thread, Which do you think has aged better: Punk or Disco? So, you state that it is "not a contest", as part of your reply.

    Really?
     
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