Round 2 at 2 hours on low setting didn't work but I also had to cut it 15 min short since I left. When I returned I took the temp on medium setting and got it around 145-147ish so now i'm trying round 3 on medium for 2 hours.
One of the records I bought today deserved some time in the Flat/Pouch so I've taken the opportunity to measure some temps. I got distracted during preheat so the empty Pouch got to preheat for nearly an hour, at which time I measured an all time high for my unit (on "high") of 147 F (typical temp is 136 after 30 min. preheat). In goes the Flat, on "high", for a 2 hour cycle (which is my usual approach). 30 minutes later it measured at 120 (probe on top of the Flat, completely inside the Pouch). Another 40 minutes and it measured at 125. These temps are obviously on the very low end of what is considered effective. I'm not surprised the temp dropped 20+ degrees after I put the Flat into the Pouch but I am kind of surprised that the temp didn't come back up. The record is still cooling so I haven't checked it for flatness just yet. I did bring in my nicer Norpro brand thermometer to compare to the included thermometer and they both give similar enough readings, the Norpro just does so much quicker.
2 hours on medium heat didn't quite work but although i'm not 100% certain I feel like it worked a little bit. It's back in now for 2 1/2 hours on medium heat
I checked that record this morning. It's flat after just a 2 hour cycle on "high". I love the Flat/Pouch.
so far i'd say i'm 0/2 on records. The first record I couldn't really get anywhere but it wasn't too bad so I stopped trying. The second I would say did infact reduce about 50% from very wavy to "sucks but I can deal with that" wavy. I stopped trying because I noticed some dots throughout the vinyl, particularly the matrix area, which I presume is from the heat and vinyl starting to melt. I'm going to start my third record which is the worst yet and is very dished. So far, i'm not wild about the vinyl flat and I think there is too much room for error with the work needing to be put into this too hard and inconsistent.
Ugh, sorry to hear. My VF is on its way to me and should received on Wednesday. Sounds like it is a little hit and miss, but at least we have the option to try something. TBH, I wasn't loving the 'hit and miss' factor and looked at more expensive alternative options, but those are not easy to come by and a lot more $$$. I don't tend to have really bad warped LPs and if they are that bad, I will send them back. But this I hope will at least let me get LP's with minor warps to a level that I am happy with in avoiding the returning of LPs, which tends to be every other one these days! Thanks for sharing and hope you have better success with the next one...
If you're not doing it already, I would recommend testing the temperature every time before you start, as your heating unit may heat inconsistently from session to session. Not doing that and starting at long heating times (since I had done long sessions before) were I think my main mistakes and resulted in a few ruined records for me. I'd be curious what temperature readings you're getting on yours. As you can see from my previous posts, mine is pretty inconsistent and I'm wondering if that's normal (and people just aren't checking their temp that much and so not noticing) or whether I just got a (second) defective unit.
I have been taking the temp at the start of every run and have been getting pretty consistent temps. Just off the top of my head temps have been: high 150ish, medium: 130-135, low 120ish give or take a few on all numbers.
Sounds like Medium is where we need to be and probably what would be the best setting overall. Unfortunately, not everyone's medium is at the same heating range/level. I will report back once I get mine and have had some time to play. I had asked John about where would be the best place to take the temp reading and he advised to just move the thermometer around a bit if the reading is not in the 130 range. (If not successful, then repeat with the next setting on the controller.) I wish it was more precise and exact (plug and play like) but given the cost of this solution which does provide good results when it works, one can't complain too much... Cheers, Vin.
Are you waiting 20 minutes before you take the temp readings? Also, where are you placing the thermometer exactly in getting the readings? Based on the numbers you are getting, I assume you are now simply using the medium setting for 2 hours and proceeding from there correct...?
I'm pretty impatient so i've been pre-heating it anywhere from 15-30min. I'm putting the thermometer right at the closed folding side, leave it there for a few min and then come back since it's pretty slow at reading up to the correct temp. I tried high heat for about 2 hrs on my second record which only provided moderate results. On my third record which is the worst dished of all my test subjects yet I started at medium 2 hours which helped somewhat and then back in for 2 1/2 hours last night. I haven't checked the results of that yet. I'm also allowing for a cool down period of at least 2 hours now or overnight. If this third test subject doesn't come out pretty good then I think i'm just going to call it quits. I think its too easy to cause some damage like distortion at the very least. Like I said in another post, i've been noticing some dots around the vinyl which I assume is from the heat but can't confirm.
Came home and checked the results of my very dished record. There was noticeable improvement and it changed from a dish bowl to a big edge warp. I was able to play it on my TT without it causing the needle to jump up and fly everywhere. The con is that there is audible distortion on the entire record which you can hear between tracks and quiet parts (rock record). There is also visible dots everywhere which again I presume is from the heat. I contemplated giving it another run in the vinyl flat but i'm convinced the audible distortion and visual dots are about to ruin the record. At this point im calling it quits on the vinyl flat. I wonder if Vinyl Flat issues refund since they are silent about it on their website. I'll try to contact them and if they refuse Amex should cover it.
They do offer a 30 day money back guarantee - so if you are within that return period, you should be good. This is not great reading/feedback for me as mine is on its way!!! Did you reach out to John and get his thoughts on the situation? What type of LP were you trying to flatten? Was it a more current modern 180g LP or an older one? Many people have had good results and I wonder if its purely down to the type of LP you are trying to fix at this point. Also, were you at the 130f level with your heat setting?
It seems that paradoxically, minor warps can be more difficult to reduce than major ones. I think what's going on is that with major warps the improvement is often dramatic and so people get it 90% fixed and are happy, and it's diminishing returns after that. Minor warps, often being already past that threshold, may therefore be impossible to fix. Then again, vinyl composition seems to play a pretty big role, as I've gotten relatively small warps perfectly flat, while other warps of roughly the same type and size have been unaffected after 12+ hours.
Yeah if you're getting those dots/pits and distortion, the temp is too high or the top plate is screwed down too tight, or both. Is that from a session on medium, which you said was only around 130-135? I damaged a record on medium but it was in there for 6 hours and I later found out my heating unit is inconsistent (usually hovers somewhere around 135 but sometimes comes in at 150+, so I have to check the temperature every time). Sorry to hear about your bad experience, mine have been mixed but I've had just enough success to want to keep trying. I've had to manage my expectations though, and am a bit surprised that so many people have had nothing but success with the VF.
Thanks for the feedback. I just received mine today and very nicely packaged and it looks/feels like one is getting their money's worth - of course, the key thing is whether it works! I have an LP that has quite a bit of a warp which I ended up getting replaced with a much better one - so not a major risk but I am going to go conservative with using medium heat (if its at the 130-145f mark) and do 2 hours and then 45 minute cool down and see how it looks. I will continue if needed (adding 15 mins) and inspect to see if there are any issues caused to the LP - if there is damage, then I am simply going to send it back and just live with the minor warps and use my periphery ring to flatten. I don't want to have to purchase new LP's that are ruined by the Vinyl Flat as that was not the idea for the purchase! lol
The current literature included with the system says to let it sit until the VF is cool to the touch...about 45 minutes. And it says you can leave it in the pouch during cool down. In my experience it will take a lot longer than 45 minutes before the VF is cool to the touch. I am not sure what the optimum cool down time is, but if left in the pouch, I am looking at a few hours before the VF is cool to the touch when using medium heat.
That's interesting, as leaving it in the pouch longer means that it is potentially being heated/cooking longer as a result. Maybe use over gloves to take out of the pouch so that it is cooling down quicker and not continuing to cook in the heated pouch? Just a thought...
I am not sure a quick cool down is wise.....I think that's one reason why we have warped records to start with!
Ah OK even though instructions say to leave for 45 minutes before removing - So how long you leaving your in the pouch before removing with good results an no damage? 2 hours...?
I have not been timing the cool down but I have no doubt that I have not opened the pouch and removed the record in less than two hours…usually much longer. And if it was not completely cool to the touch when I open the pouch, I let it sit even longer. I am not saying you need to do that, but I take the “cool to the touch” bit of the instructions literally. In my experience, if you turn off the heat and open the pouch at 45 minutes, the surface of the VF is definitely still warm…borderline hot. The pouch insulates very well and the VF is a significant hunk of metal and retains heat very well. I am still refining my process, but have had no discernible damage thus far (knock wood).
It's not a race. It's an art. If you are looking for specific instructions to follow that will work all the time then this isn't for you. Never take the record out of the plates warm. Variable uneven temp changes create warps. Let it get to room temp before removing from the plates. I don't do more than 2 hours of heat at a time. If the first pass doesn't work. Do it again. I've never caused damage leaving a record in the plates without the heat on. I've even run a 2 hour heat then left the record in the plates for a week. Happens, usually on purpose. If you have to have things fixed now and on the first try, this isn't for you.
Got this feedback from John on when to remove the vinyl flat from the pouch: You can leave the Vinyl Flat in the pouch or remove it right away - it's your choice. That said, I always recommend whichever technique you choose, be sure to always repeat the same procedure to be consistent! It didn’t really answer my question but thought I would share. This isn’t as straightforward as I thought but I’ll experiment in getting there….
Hi All, Finally unboxed my unit today and measuring the heat from the Groovy Pouch and I am getting the following readings: Setting Low - After 20 Minutes -> 112F Setting Med - After +10 Minutes to Previous Setting -> 129.3f Setting High - After +10 Minutes to Previous Setting -> 147f Is this in line with what you are all seeing and I assume I should just use the Medium setting for any flattening? I am going to re-test the medium setting again to see if it gets to the 130+ mark but I think this is close enough for a conservative heating temperature for 2 hours or +5/15 as needed for safe flattening... Cheers, Vin.
Those temps seem more or less in line with what they should be, and assuming they stay around the same, I would say to start with the medium setting. It sounds like you're planning on re-testing the temperature which is a good idea since (as I've talked about here) my current issue is that I'm getting significant (+/- 25-30 degree) fluctuations on the same setting at different times--yesterday my medium got up to 160, just a few minutes ago it came in at 133...then I put the VF in and now it's up to 150. Fortunately it seems like this particular problem isn't as common with others' heating units, then again I feel like most people aren't measuring them constantly the way I have been, so who knows?
