Want more analogue-like sound from red book

Silver has to be used very, very carefully. The more resolving the system is in the first place the more chance just throwing silver interconnects in the mix will yield just what happened to you.

 

I too have a Jolida JD100 CD player. I used it for over three years with its stock tube (no op-amps) output stage and really enjoyed it but felt like it still sounded a bit too digital. Then I got an AN(K) 2.1 NOS DAC built by Pete Fulton (DigitalPete). Among the upgrades Pete installed was Duelund copper caps. Very analog sounding. Not quite as good as my analog front end, but very acceptable. If one desires analog sound out of CD's, an NOS DAC is definitely the way to go.

 

CD playback is analogue.



But I know what you mean.

 

One can always dream

 

You can see my system in my profile. My AN DACkit has been modified beyond 3.1x, so, I suppose its a 4.1x of sorts. ANKit w ANUK OP Tranny's.
I mentioned my opinion on those AN Copper caps (change these asap). The kit I/V trannys are trash. Look into the Sowters 1465 which is 1/4 the price of the comparable AN UK I/V's. More info on installing those here: R-2R Audio Note DAC 4.1 DIY and mods
Pay attention to the picture comparing the I/V trannys.

The c-core trannys are a nice addition. Should be blacker, smoother (more stable throughout the bandwidth) and better dynamics.

This pretty much covers the low hanging fruit. Other mods include AN silver tants and silver wire, neither of which I've done.

If you decide to go the renderer route, ping me and I'll pass on my experience there as well.

 

yes 6X5 is the rectifier and an ECL82 in the power supply board. tried so far a NOS Brimar 6X5GT not too much difference...

 

This is interesting. Audioquest was the best so far I tried. Had copper before but the AQ blew it away.

 

Audioquest makes great cables. I bought the Graphite and still use Colorado interconnects to tie my DAC to the Pre and the Pre to the Amps. The Graphite coaxial brought lots of wonderful detail and a great sound stage but I noticed that with that detail and my particular system it was too much on recordings that were a little hot or had digital glare. This exaggerated the upper end and therefore my focus was on the upper end and how tilted it sounded in that direction. On well recorded albums the silver really sounded fantastic, but I could not take the sound on less well recorded music, which unfortunately there is a lot out there. I found the solution was to move to a higher end all copper coaxial and it still allowed the detail to come out and still created a wonderful sound stage, but on those recordings that were a bit underwhelming, hot (brick walled) and tended toward digital glare the copper seemed much more forgiving. As you know digital is not a very forgiving medium to poorly recorded music and neither is silver to my ears. Trying a high end solid copper interconnect was just a thought to try and save you from first jumping into changing out and buying a new transport or DAC. If you have a dealer who works with you see if they have a high end copper coaxial to lend you, maybe it will do the trick.

 

My Italian all tube Lector CD 0.6 (2x 12AT7) is very analog sounding, the best sonics I’ve heard from a disc. It’s playback of redbook CD beats that same discs SACD layer (as played on a Pioneer DV-79avi nearly every time, and that machine is no sliuch when it comes to regular CD either.

You might also look into the new Parks Audio Puffin which is getting very good reviews here. Though it’s primarily a phono stage, it is also meant to offer a large array if sonic tweaks for CD playback.

Thiugh you’ve thus far nixed it, but a bit if EQ can do wonders, and the Schiit Loki is just the device, I love mine.

 

Just my 2 cents - try some Cardas interconnects, something like the old Quadlink 5C.

Also, the most smooth sounding DACs I've heard are the non-oversampling types. Back in the day I used to own several converters, and the smoothest, bar none, was an old Monica 2 DAC. It, however, was not the most detailed and definitely showed some roll-off on top of the frequency spectrum. My SACD player and transformer coupled RAKK DAC were a lot more detailed and closer to "the master tape" sound but also not as engaging as my turntable.

In the end I gave up trying to pursue good digital - I know it can be done - but the journey was frustrating enough that I decided to concentrate on my analog front end. Which led me down a path of VPI tables and MC cartridges...

 

My DAC is a non-oversampling unit. I know it is hard to achieve what I want, but before I ask here around

 

From your profile your equipment looks like it should be giving you a warm / analog sound. I believe from what you have written you are very satisfied just looking to tweak the digital sound ever so slightly to move it more towards analogue which is the direction I have gone over the years and am very happy with they system sound at this point. The two steps that I thought made the most difference were, as mentioned, the coaxial, so I won't belabor that point but the second were the tubes in both my pre and mono blocks. I went with some NOS tubes. In the Pre I switched out the stock for a pair of British 12AU7 Platinum Grade Brimar CV4003 from Upscale Audio. That was the icing on the cake since I had already found my tubes for the amplifiers. On the amp side I used Mullard CV 2943 (6922) on my input and Tung Sol 5687 on my driver side. Between the coax and the NOS tube upgrades I came to the point I wanted to be at without having to replace any of the equipment I spent years pulling together. It still is a digital system but it is so smooth while still giving all the best qualities of digital.

 

It could be so that Your vinyl front end isn´t resolving enough, and is lacking at both freq ends. I have often found this to be the culprit when I compare digital contra vinyl. It´s extremely difficult to achieve the same resolution, transient response and detail, if at all possible, with vinyl. Midrange is not so difficult with vinyl, it´s mechanically rather easy, but high freq and low freq are.

And then I haven´t mentioned the difficulties to get a very low groove noise.

 

Try a Naim

 

PS some would replace the liquid and lush descriptions with bloated

 

The 4 DACs I've listen to extensively that had a analog sound all where doing DSD. I

The LampizatOr Golden Gate, the LamizatOr Pacific, the Bricasti DAC , and the small iFI Micro DSD DAC. I believe DSD Gets you closer to that analog sound. Notice I said close.

 

I'm dealing with my own issues pertaining to brightness, stemming from a multitude of things. But FWIW, with my SACD/CD player (using onboard DAC), I did notice a slight improvement on the top end when I upgraded from cheap monoprice RCA's to a decent set of interconnects. It took out of some of the harsh high end brittleness I was hearing and smoothed it out a bit. High's are still "bright", but not painfully so. I'm not talking uber-expensive snake oil stuff, I paid about $50 for a 3ft cable, and they even did a free 90hr bench burn in too (not sure if it makes a difference, but it was free).

 

I have an AN UK Dac-3 Signature myself a very old beast, 1995 is the build date, so take this as you will as it's a bit apples and oranges. You've tube rolled and I can't say I know the sonics of the tubes you rolled but might be worth asking for tube recs that are notably warmer. I use a pair of Mullards myself my Dac uses a pair of 6dj8's and that's it no rectifier. The Mullard seem warm but still well detailed to me with good tone.

Regarding digital cables can you clarify which Audioquest you have? Diamond appears to be an HDMI cable from what google tells me. I have cycled through a bunch of coax cables the one that gave me that "ahhhhh" moment was my current from Jorma Design. A very smooth organic sounding all copper cable. Not saying that you should change to Jorma just saying what sounds good may also sound a bit Hifi at times. Just my two cents and best of luck to you!

 

I remember reading about a CD player or D/A converter that converts all incoming signals to quad DSD (DSD 256) and that it sounded pretty good. I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

 

Transient response on my turntable kills my digital setup. And the digital front end is not crap. RME UFX conversion in an acoustically treated studio. Transient response is one of the joys of vinyl for me.

 

Sounds like you don't like vinyl really.

I find groove noise to be very low on good quality near mint vinyl. If I was to turn volume up between songs to hear it, I would risk blowing speakers when the music started on next track. So end of side is only possibility - and on my system groove noise is insignificant.

But your finding vinyl lacking resolution says it all.

I won't respond to you again at all in this thread because you want it to be about vinyl vs CD, and your agenda of digital preference. Not what the OP says it's about. But we'll see.

 

Agreed. Try an Audio Note Lexus signal cable and perhaps change tubes in your face. Speaker cables are another variable. It won't be difficult to get a pleasant sound for you. Enjoy digital for what it is.

I found that the greatest difficulty with digital is in long listening sessions. If you listen for more than one hour a day, focused listening, you really need to balance with vinyl

 

Actually that IS what the thread seemed to me, if you say more analog-like. Like others, I'm feeling maybe you are at a limit of what you can do, as you are already running non-oversampling and tubes. What that doesn't replicate is things like noise floor, inner groove and euphonious distortions, wow and flutter, and most especially different masterings. Many folks prefer those things although they are less accurate, and there may be hidden mechanisms as yet undiscovered which make digital less natural in other ways (I suspect A/D conversion, still yes after all these years). It is much like film-film is visibly less accurate than high rate digital is capable* of, but some folks still prefer that look.

*At least insofar as judder and strobing and such issues. The one time I saw a true comparison, film still had some advantage in color depth, though as the moderator pointed out it was a 1st generation unscratched pristine 35 mm transfer "and you'll NEVER see anything that good in a theater" which echoes the comments some anti-vinyl folks make that many titles simply do not have good pressings available, even when new, and therefore fail to reach the limits of the format.

 

Very well written what I want. I have no new production tubes either. I have Telefunkens and RFTs in the amps. NOS in the DAC.

 

Sorry, my phone fooled me. I wanted to bring up the possibility of changing tubes in your _DAC_