Warning to all record collectors!!! (outer bag/inner sleeve concerns)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rockadelic, Oct 17, 2014.

  1. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yes in everything from children’s toys to surgical tubing. The problem is in most cases it’s hard to be sure whether PVC is at fault for a child’s cancer diagnosis, for example.

    But from a record collector’s perspective, the damage is clear - nothing is worse than discovering that your beautiful copy of Disraeli Gears is now unplayable. Did I post this picture of a PVC sleeve reacting to the vinyl record inside the jacket, basically following the shape of the vinyl?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  2. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Now if we ever needed a reason to cull people.......
     
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  3. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    The plasticiser in the PVC sleeve off-gasses hydrochloric acid, which is what reacts with the record.
     
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  4. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    "Who told you to put the balm on?" - Jackie Chiles
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. rrbbkk

    rrbbkk Forum Resident

    Why are you even trying to play picture discs?
     
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  6. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    So we're talking about the slightly cloudy-ish clear sleeves, not the Mo-Fi sleeves, correct?
    Just to be 100%.
    Ordering new sleeves in the morning just to go through the collection and see if anything is living in one of those. I know of 2 or 3 off the top of my head. They came with the pressings.
     
  7. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    The PVC sleeves. Thicker than what you would normally get. Remember back when the school and public library use to have records? The sleeves they use to keep them in.
     
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  8. I m not comfortable with these claims,my Smiths Prince and New Order plus countless other records were housed in pvc sleeves on the day I bought them and there is not one issue that has been reported.That is in my case,others, well there maybe a reason and Im not to judge as Im not a chemist.
     
  9. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    The outer plastic that surrounds the package? Thick and vinyl-ish. So the inner sleeves that actually touch the LPs are okay if they are rice paper or a Mo-Fi type sleeve?
    I do have one new LP that came in a thick, very clear outer sleeve with a sticky flap. Time to discard!
     
  10. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Yes
     
  11. Phil D

    Phil D Forum Resident

    Some PVC sleeves don't cause this reaction, others do so best to discard them all. I ruined quite a number of 45s some years ago when I decided to re sleeve all my singles in brand new PVC sleeves - these did the damage. You have been warned. While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a good replacement inert plastic sleeve for picture discs?
     
    ispace likes this.
  12. Those pvc sleeves are 30 years old,its no point warning me now,and the records are fine,must have been blessed with good luck.
     
  13. Mookielagoo

    Mookielagoo Marky-mark Vinyl Nut

    Location:
    UK
    Urgh! I've just been using double gaped Panmar heavy orange peel PVC outers and Mofi inners to dress my cherished collection. Could this issue be linked to old style vinyl covers? I like the 'protection' the heavy PVC covers offer. Im confused reading conflicting arguments and not sure whether to replace the damn lot!!. The UK is cool and my records have a space to breath in a cupboard.
    Sorry if this has been mentioned but I'm wondering whether sweat and oils from normal handling can get trapped inside a sealed plastic cover?sometimes you'll see the moisture on a centre label after the finger has left the surface and ive got in the habit of ensuring the moisture has disappeared before popping back in the jacket.
     
  14. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You are telling us nothing.; So we cannot tell you what we think is going on. Urgh! Did your records fog up? And how bad?

    But no, nothing too bad is caused by fingerprint oils from hands. It usually washes off, and if it doesn't, then it does not leave damage that sounds like a fogged record.
     
  15. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Sometimes it is a bad type of poly sleeve but used on a record that is not prone to bad reactions. So one cannot clear a type of sleeve outright. It is the type of vinyl compound as well as the sleeve which causes the bad reaction.

    I am finding certain types of inner sleeves are really bad, some fairly bad, and others occasionally bad depending on the vinyl type.

    We are seeing more of this in the last 8 - 10 years because the sleeves are finally breaking down against the vinyl.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You'd be better off listening to what is going on rather than staying ignorant of this bad effect on vinyl with certain sleeves. And you are not describing the exact type of sleeves you used. PVC can mean many different types of sleeves. Some are deadly to vinyl, but only certain types of vinyl.
     
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  17. Phil D

    Phil D Forum Resident

    You're right, I have singles on certain labels that are unaffected while other labels are badly affected. My advice is to be on the safe side and ditch all PVC sleeves.
    Some of these sleeves also affect CDs although I have discovered a cleaning fluid that completely eradicates the frosting effect these sleeves can cause.
     
    Robert C likes this.
  18. I am not being ignorant,thats an aggressive stance from someone that does not know my record collection.
    I have played my New Order collection over the past few weeks and they all sound good with a Shure M95HE,I did say earlier that I might be lucky,as for the sleeves they are crinkled,I cannot provide details of the PVC sleeves I bought them in the mid '80s,do you expect me to keep a log form that era?
     
  19. To add,I cleaned all my records 3 years ago with a spin clean and found no damage,last year I had a cabinet maker build a purpose made record storage cabinet,when I catalogued my collection,aware of the concerns regarding PVC outer sleeves I inspected all of them and found no problem,when funds become available I will be buying a Moth RCM and again all my records will be inspected.
    I am NOT promoting the virtues of PVC,Iam simply stating that I have not had a problem with them,also Im not burrowing my head in the sand with this issue,I have started using poly outer sleeves maybe a qualified chemist could chime in with the facts,
     
  20. petercl

    petercl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seekonk, MA, USA
    Are the CBS Mastesound outers PVC? I had my "The Wall" in the original bag for over 35 years. I didn't see any damage but I took it out just in case.
     
  21. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Does not seem like the type to have problems. It is a more clear looking thicker type. Like picture discs come in often.

    Then there are inner sleeves, some are paper with a clear window, and a very plastic-y type of lining (high risk). Others with a rice paper lining are safer.

    So it is several types of inner and several types of outer sleeves. And deep into this 2015 to 2020 era we are seeing more fogged LPs than ever before.
     
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  22. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I have an original Kinks "Face to Face" mono in stone minty condition on Reprise. I mean stone mint other than the worse fogging you've ever seen on an LP. And it was never put in a plastic liner inner or outer. It was just that bad batch of US Reprise LPs everyone who has been around a while knows about.
     
  23. The Gomper

    The Gomper By Your Side?

    Location:
    Missouri
    I call it "chemical burn", and that PVC sleeve definitely does it to records.
     
  24. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Are you sure they are PVC? In other words they are the thick flexible plastic that picture discs are sometimes sold in (similar in look and feel to surgical tubing)? If they are thinner, stiffer plastic, it is not PVC.

    There is no longer any uncertainty. Perhaps this is explained earlier, but PVC is hard, and is sold in pellet form. In order to make it flexible, a chemical agent commonly referred to as “plasticizer” is added. Depending on the type of plasticizer used, it can leach from the PVC in gas form, reacting with and permanently ruining your vinyl records. PVC sleeves that are leaching plasticizer will become deformed and brittle (as the agent that softens the PVC is being “out gassed”. Here’s the tricky part. Of the major plasticizers used with PVC, one in particular di-phthalate or DEHP, leaches very easily from PVC. Another tricky issue: the gas passes right through most jacket covers. It can also affect records stored in the same box or very close to an affected sleeve. Since it is a gas, if the sleeve affected is stored in an open area with good circulation, the gas may circulate away from the vinyl. But this isn’t necessarily good news as the gas is reported to affect development of vital organs in children (can’t make this stuff up). This is why their use in children’s toys is now banned in many countries Five Additional Phthalates Banned From Children’s Toys | Materials & Supply Chain | UL

    Anyway, like you, we were all skeptical back in 2012 when the article first appeared about the BBC archives being damaged by PVC sleeves. This thread follows the whole development - good stuff. There are also tons of scientific articles if you are having trouble sleeping.

    Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread- Vinyl Engine
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
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  25. Pimjazz0

    Pimjazz0 Forum Resident

    Okay guys, looking for some advice by you. I keep all of my records in PVC outer sleeves. Not the records themselves of course but the cardboard sleeve itself. The cover or however you call it. I keep all of my records themselves in rice paper anti static sleeves WITHIN the cardboard cover. To prevent from ringwear and seam splits I would like to keep them OUTSIDE of the cardboard, within the anti static inner sleeves together with the cardboard in the PVC outer sleeve. (Hope I am making sense haha)

    Now I know that direct vinyl to PVC contact is a bad idea. It causes the film or mist over the vinyl. Do you guys think it will damage my vinyl as well as I keep the vinyl in the inner sleeves inside that PVC outer sleeve? Or is the paper sleeve anti static enough to protect it from a chemical reaction?
     

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