Warning to all record collectors!!! (outer bag/inner sleeve concerns)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rockadelic, Oct 17, 2014.

  1. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa One man gathers what another man spills

    Location:
    Dayton Ohio
    Sleeve Ebola.
     
  2. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Uh Huh

    Location:
    OH
    I decided to quarantine my collection. For the next 21 days I'm just going to sit here and play records. To make sure they are not infected.


    I just hope the media doesn't camp out across the street.
     
    aoxomoxoa likes this.
  3. fluffskul

    fluffskul Forum Resident

    Location:
    albany, ny
    I started reading this thread and now I'm too scared of this record ebola to even continue... one simple question for the plastic guys... i ditched all my non-specific paper sleeves for mofi inner sleeves. should i know re-ditch the mofi for paper?
     
  4. cracklehead

    cracklehead Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The music, on which we all spend a lot of money, comes inside them. You can't possibly think this is an inappropriate conversation to have here.

    You know how the internet works, right? You can skip the stuff you don't want to read?
     
    Gardo and Desert Island Daniel like this.
  5. fluffskul

    fluffskul Forum Resident

    Location:
    albany, ny
    I think what he's getting at (and I agree) is that this thread would probably be more at home in the audio hardware board vs the music corner.
     
  6. Linus Vendeen

    Linus Vendeen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Great. This year, after 25 years of not bothering I went out and bought 800 thick PVC sleeves to protect my favourite records. This is why neatness and tidyness is bad for you.
     
    Gardo, Martinev2, Brudy and 1 other person like this.
  7. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    Are you certain they are made from PVC?
     
  8. Psyre

    Psyre Forum Resident

    Mofi inners are not PVC so they are safe.
     
    MoonPool, Vinylsoul 1965 and TLMusic like this.
  9. fluffskul

    fluffskul Forum Resident

    Location:
    albany, ny
    thank god.
     
  10. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    The sleeves need to be tossed if they are the thick outer type.
    It needs to be in every section so nobody missed it.
     
    TLMusic likes this.
  11. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    :agree: Perhaps the thread title could be changed to clarify that this thread is about PVC outer sleeves.
     
  12. Henry Love

    Henry Love Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Thanks to the OP.I've got some Simply Vinyl and one the covers was wavy.The records OK.
     
  13. MondoFanM

    MondoFanM Member from ATX

    Location:
    Austin
    I use ultimate outer 5.0 from Sleevecityusa.com. A friend of mine turned me onto them last year. Any danger in these?

    Description:

    A clearly better outer record sleeve that doesn't get cloudy. Our LP outer sleeve has the strength and durability of Mylar, at a fraction of the cost, and fits loosely over 33 rpm record jackets. Manufactured from crystal 250 micron clear polypropylene, this customer favorite is sized at 12.75 x 12.75 inches. Shipping weight: 2.6 lbs.
    Get a free sample!
     
  14. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I had only one Simply Vinyl to my knowledge that was still in its heavy plastic cover- The Eagles 'Hell Freezes Over' which I almost never play. I pulled it just now, and the records are fine, but they are going to get a nice bath. They had some nice paper/poly sleeves around them, which I temporarily replaced with the QRP sleeves, but my new fav is that Sleeve City Ultimate Diskkeeper. I have been bagging my jackets in what I gather is polyethene from Bags Unlimited, saving the original inners if they are period correct and not trashed and have resleeved at least 4-6000 over the years with the old Discwasher VRP, later VRP, then various, from MoFi, Chad and the like.
    I never liked those pink plastic-y inner sleeves that seem to come with a lot of new records, and just replaced them when I opened and cleaned the records. But, I still need to do some double-checking.
    Thanks for the heads-up on this.
     
  15. MickAvory

    MickAvory Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I've only got one title with the heavy PVC cover, John Linell's State Songs single.. The one that is shaped like the USA. I pulled it out and its got hazing on it. Luckily, it looks like it only infected a small part of the playable surface on both sides.

    Because the jacket wasn't stiff cardboard, only the PVC envelope, I had put a plastic divider behind it. I also put it in a regular Bags Unlimited outer baggie. Nothing leeched onto any surrounding record. I put the single in a rice paper sleeve in front of the PVC sleeve, back into the outer baggie. That may stave it off for a bit longer. More layers to go through.
     
  16. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    I use those sleeves and like them a lot. They are made of polypropylene, which is supposed to be a pretty neutral plastic. PVC (a different material) is apparently the stuff which is known to cause problems.

    Again, here's the article about Polypropylene vs. Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC), which I posted earlier, in case anyone missed it:
    http://www.albox.com.au/pages/Polypropylene-vs-Polyvinyl-Chloride-(PVC).html

    An excerpt from the article:

    A further problem with flexible PVC is that the flexibility and softness must be induced by the addition of a large amount of plasticisers, usually phthalates, at concentrations of 30 - 50%. These phthalates may have carcinogenic properties or affect endocrinic activity in humans. They do this by mimicking the female hormone oestrogen, causing biological imbalances in humans as well as other species.

    These plasticisers are mobile by nature, hence migratory. They leach out into the environment during long-term storage and into soil and aquifers after disposal. The 'mist', which accumulates on windscreens of cars containing PVC trim, is evidence of plasticiser migration. Other evidence of this instability may be seen where the print from a document migrates onto the PVC binder or file in which the document is stored.

    It is impossible for these effects to occur in relation to polypropylene. The soft blend materials get their softness and flexibility from the actual molecular structure of the material, which is stable, rather than from any migratory additive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
    Brian Mc, 1970, hvbias and 1 other person like this.
  17. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Myles Astor had written extensively on the subject of inner sleeves some time ago (I know we are talking about the heavy outer jacket protectors viz Simply Vinyl, but questions have also been raised about the inner sleeves). He did an update to an old survey which addresses some of the newer inner sleeves, and also talks about PVC/plasticizer/leeching in that context. (Myles is a pretty smart guy, has a PhD in molecules or something, and has been around audio stuff for-eva):
    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/lp_sleaves.htm

    *Even if the PFO editor can't spell 'sleeve.' :)
     
    hvbias and TLMusic like this.
  18. BurgerKing

    BurgerKing Forum Resident

    This worried me enough to check, and sure enough-- about 70% of my 75 or so Simply Vinyls have the cloudy surface. BUT it's weird: some of them only have it on one side (or doubles where one LP has it and one doesn't), and none of them that I've checked so far has the ssshhhh sound. This is what I found on several records:

    [​IMG]

    ....which corresponds to the "design" on the inner sleeve SV uses:

    [​IMG]

    So, is it really maybe just the inner sleeve? Or the gas from the PVC outer creates the imprint through the inner, which is benign? Or a deadly combination of the two?

    Although I don't hear the sound others report, I can't swear there's no effect on SQ. The only one I'm very very familiar with is Tommy-- I recall it being my choice of the many pressings I have of that title. I played it all the way through, and didn't love it. But that could be my mind playing tricks on me. Why would an imprint (for lack of a better word) have an effect on the sound?

    Anyway, I replaced all the inner sleeves with MoFis, and the outers with polypropylene-- truly a case of closing the barn door after the horse has escaped. But what else could I do? :sigh:
     
  19. Jae

    Jae Senior Member

    I just went through about 100 of my records which have been stored in PVC sleeves for about 10 years (I've been meaning to replace them with Mylar sleeves for years, but only partially got around to it!). Fortunately, no issues at all, despite many of the sleeves being somewhat "wavy".

    So, is the reaction environment related? It's fairly dry here and my records are stored at around 20 Celsius (in closed record boxes) all year around. Just curious why people's experiences seem so inconsistent?
     
  20. Linus Vendeen

    Linus Vendeen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Actually I am not 100% sure. I got them online so I will need to track down the actual ones I bought. Looking online it seems most being sold are not PVC. It gets pretty hot and humid here so I need to think a bit more carefully about vinyl storage anyway.
     
  21. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    Hopefully not PVC. I'm surprised anyone would still manufacture PVC sleeves these days, considering their long term problems are becoming known.
     
  22. Linus Vendeen

    Linus Vendeen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Thanks, in fact I have just seen your very helpful post from before where you showed a picture of a sleeve. Now I know exactly what you mean. Those were the kinds record stores used to use (and many second hand stores still do). I've noticed in the past how they often bubbled and also seemed to stick to the sleeve. I have a few of these but not many so I am in the clear.
     
    TLMusic likes this.
  23. rockadelic

    rockadelic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Singapore
    Try & listen to the quiet parts eg: the start of the record, the parts in between tracks, turn up the volume & you may hear louder than usual swoosh or hiss than you would get on unaffected lps.

    The reason why you get more foggy surfaces on 1 side than the other for double lps may be due to one side was facing the PVC side & the other was facing the 2nd piece of vinyl. As for single lps the rate of deterioration varies, as raunchroll explained earlier.

    The only constant is that the longer you leave your lps in PVC jackets, the more you risk increased rate of deterioration.

    You may not hear the swooshing sound for some of the heavier music like rock, but you know that in the back of your mind that it's there in the background is just not right.
     
  24. BurgerKing

    BurgerKing Forum Resident

    Yes, I did that. I can't report a difference.

    Maybe I wasn't clear-- I noted doubles where one LP was affected and the other was not at all. With singles, I had examples where only one side was affected.

    No, I don't know in any part of my mind that it's there, because it's just not. But that's not to say the SQ is unaffected in any way-- I can't say whether it is or not, because I don't have a clean SV copy to compare it to, and I'm not familiar enough with any of them to absolutely trust my memory.
     
  25. Gary C

    Gary C Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Sorry if this was answered previously (I may have missed it). Quick question: are polyethylene sleeves safe? Even heavier (5-6 mil)? Are they oil based?

    Thanks.
     

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