Warning to all record collectors!!! (outer bag/inner sleeve concerns)*

I own the original A&M issue of Suzanne Vega's "Solitude Standing" pressed in Japan in its original jewel case. The surface of the CD has become a little foggy - from the plastic jewel case, I suspect. It plays and reads great, without any errors.
So, I guess CDs may get foggy because of certain materials, but these materials won't necessarily be PVC-related.
Could you please take a photo and post the packaging of these Capitol Blues CDs? I've browsed the pictures available on the Net but there are no photos of inner packaging.

 

This thread is scary, just ready to put my entire collection in storage for three years while we live in Dubai. Talked my company into temperature controlled storage, bought $1000 worth of cases to store them in. Told my wife to follow the packers and be sure they don't stack too high. Even have my wife taking pictures of every album for insurance if needed which I have not figured out how to obtain yet, but know I want to insure them. Now I have my wife digging through all the cases to find those ELP picture discs and remove these heavy Outer sleeves. I don't think I have any others as all outer sleeves I bought recently were not PVC. Good grief!

 

I think it takes 8 to 10 years before one sees the signs of PVC fog on LPs. It's not an overnight thing. One really feels that their collection is fine for a very long time, and then the heartbreak sets in.

 

FOR ANYONE WHO HAS PURCHASED OUTER LP SLEEVES FROM MUSIC DIRECT: I contacted them about the material used for their sleeves and their reply was that their 4 and 6 mil sleeves are polyethelyne and their Japanese-sourced sleeves are made of polyethelyne or polypropelyne.

 

What about Bags Unlimited? Looks to me their regular sleeves are polyethylene. The "picture disc" sleeves say polyvinyl. I have thousands of records, but maybe only 2 or 3 picture discs....

 

So what about those sleeves that were used on Classic Records? Like the 200g Zeppelin and Who issues. Are those ok?

 

Who's the chemist out there that knows of a simple, kitchen science test for PVC? It's so reactive compared to polypropylene or polyethylene, there has to be some basic test, one that would look for the chlorine in PVC. Pour pickle juice or soy sauce, both high in sodium, on a sleeve and see if you get salt. Something like that.

FWIW, my Simply Vinyl records are still nice and shiny. I am worried enough after this thread that I'm removing them from their outer sleeves.


EDIT: Heck, I set up the experiment on my kitchen counter. I suddenly had a couple of Simply Vinyl sleeves just lying around. I'll let them sit for 24 hours with pickle juice and soy sauce on them. I don't expect salt but a discoloration of the sleeve would be nice. If this doesn't work, I'm going to try a base chemical, like ammonia or lye, and see if that reacts with the chlorine.

Don Herbert was my hero.

 

These PVC sleeves do deteriorate under bad storage conditions (attic/garage with large temp swings). I have received them covering used records and signs are yellowing and brittleness. Some of these records had problems but can't recall if this could be related to the sleeves. As for my own. I have a few discs in them for decades and some more incl Earmark and Simply Vinyl that are 12 -14 years old. No sign of trouble with these and doubt there will be any sudden deterioration. My view is no need to Panic. I also can't see how any products released can harm vinyl within a card cover without signs of damage to the outer sleeve first. It is certainly advisable not to keep vinyl directly touching PVC. Need to see some science on this. It's strange I have not heard of problems with PVC sleeves mentioned prior to this thread.

 

Ouch... that's a shame!

 

This is why it's critical to rip those CDs & do those needle drops- not the same, I know, but at least you'll still be able to enjoy the music...

 

Can someone tell me what PVC is? Is it an acronym? For what?

 

Quicksrt - I have had a few that degraded very quickly. My copy of Paul McCartney/Twin Freaks' 12" single "Really Love You" was messed up when I checked it a few years ago, and it was released in 2005. Even scarier, a Universal Music Japan "Pure LP" pressing of the Sticky Fingers album is beginning to fog, and I purchased it last year!

 

That was a hall-of-shame move for RTI. I have a couple hundred albums pressed by them that came with those sticky inner sleeves. Can't count the number of hours I've spent cleaning the records. I still come across albums in my collection with those things, and I groan. I have to wash my hands just touching them, because they're so sticky. The thing is, those sleeves left a residue from day 1 -- it took me awhile to figure out why my clean records kept coming out with fingerprints -- because when you hold the sleeve, it presses the sticky junk onto the record surface. Completely bone-headed for a high-end pressing plant. The fact that I had to clean the records and replace the sleeves for at least the first 50 of the Music Matters reissues was galling. I even contacted RTI back when I first discovered this -- no one ever responded. Nice. They still use crappy inners. I don't understand why they don't just break down and switch. It's not like they're that expensive.

 

Can people who have degraded LPs post details of the storage conditions in which they were kept over the years as well as local climatic conditions? Must have a bearing on the damage. I note people in Australasia / Far East having a lot of damaged vinyl.

 

I think that heat and humidity might have something to do with it, but considering that the BBC collection was damaged, I woudn't get too comfortable. One advantage we have in the US is that those heavy PVC covers were never used in the numbers that they were in Australia particularly, and in Europe. Even where they were used, many of them were open flap.

As I mentioned, a "Pure LP" Sticky Fingers that I purchased a year ago and has never left my "media" room in our apartment (originally intended as a maid's quarters, it has no windows and is kept temperature and humidity controlled). But not only is the PVC liner is starting to bubble, but the record has misting (barely visible because it is a translucent white vinyl, and the sleeves on both sides have the PVC jacket have been affected.

Now that I think about it, I have seen that "misting" on a number of records over the years, both when I was in the US and in Tokyo. I always assumed that it was either from the inner sleeve or from mold, or a manufacturing defect. Never thought about questioning the outer sleeve.

 

Polyvinylchloride.

 

What about those old inner sleeves, that have a lining that feels like Saran wrap? I've definitely seen some whitish lines on the vinyl that won't come off, and I always assumed it was that type of inner, popular in the 60s. I think a lot of the London classical releases have them.

 

Yes, those are mandatory to replace. I think you can leave them in the jacket if you want to keep the original liner, but put something better around the actual LP.

 

Can anyone confirm the 2.5 sleeves from sleeve city are safe? I just bought 100 of them and now I'm nervous.

 

I have had records in those poly lined inner and outer sleeves for decades with no problems. I am not sure what we are talking about here.

 

as has been said, it is not just the poly inners on their own, something else is going on and it must be environmental, maybe relative humidity. I have no problems either but i've seen the problem many times and it is only related to pvc inners but its a very small percentage so something else is the catalyst...

 

I read all of the above, last weekend. It seems like there are several culprits discussed. I finally got my head around the PVC outer sleeves at the heart of the discussion. From my experience, I haven't seen many of the "stiff and clear" PVC outer sleeves in the US. (It sounds like they are pretty common in the U.K. and Australia.)

I do have about 20 of those outer sleeves, though. I bought them at a high-end stereo store back in the mid 1970s. I pulled them off of my LPs back in the early 90s when I noticed that they were sticking to the covers. No covers had yet been damaged. They would also cause the "conventional" plastic outer sleeves next to them to bubble up, so to speak. And, when next to each other, they would stick together. Of course each album in one of those outer sleeves were something special. I did not check the vinyl.

I am separated from my record collection until sometime next year. I thought they were as safe as possible. Never dreamed that some protective sleeves could be ruining them. I am anxious to have a look at my collection when I can.

One thing that I am not clear on: Are the plastic outer sleeves that are so prevalent at used record stores and record fairs made of PVC?

They are a little less clear than the outer sleeves I mentioned above. They are thinner and softer. They tend to stick up a half inch or so above the record cover. They have no flap. That is what I have the bulk of my records in. I'm thinking that they are PVC, but I'm not sure.

I have been buying and using Mylar (or Mylar-like) outer sleeves for the last 15 years or so, but I have more albums in the other type of outer sleeve.

 

I thought I'd share my experience with inner sleeve problems. Back in my teens (mid 1970s), I worked at the Art and Music department of a large public library. One of my duties was preparing records for the public shelves. As the records went into library bindings I had the inner sleeves to discard. Most of the records were classical. Many, like for instance Deutsche Grammophon, came in paper inner sleeves with plastic lining. The lining was clear shiny plastic - kind of like the material in a clear shiney plastic sandwich bag . I thought these were great. Rather than discarding these, I took them home and replaced many of my paper inner sleeves with these. No abrasion, no paper dust - pretty cool.

Then, in the early-mid 1980s, upon removing a record from one of these sleeves I discovered that it was sticking to the record. I checked every record that I thought had one of these sleeves and several were slightly adhering to the sleeve.
I ended up going through every record that I had and replaced every one of those sleeves. I threw the "cool" sleeves into the trash. I think I lost two albums to this damage. I considered myself luck as I felt that this was a process in progress.
(BTW, storage conditions were cool, dry and no sunlight.)

I had started getting inner sleeves that were lined with a matte form of plastic. They had more of a wax paper than a plastic bag look about them. Now I get rice paper type sleeves. No problems with either of these, yet.

 

Yeah, those are the inner sleeves I referred to above as having plastic linings that feel like Saran wrap. This summer at a garage sale, I picked up about 10 very early London bluebacks, including some desirable titles (like the Dvorak with the Indian headdress on it), along with a few top-notch Living Stereo's. The guy wanted $0.25 each for the records, so I just gave him $5. The covers are as close to new as a 50-year-old record could be, and the vinyl was played a couple times at most. The Londons all have that kind of inner. I haven't gotten around to cleaning the records yet and putting them in new inner sleeves, but last night I was inspired to pull one of them out -- there are definitely white lines across the record surface that match with the wrinkles in the plastic liner. Fortunately, at this stage they can be wiped off, so when I clean them they should be okay. But I always replace those inners, usually with SleeveCity Ultimate RecordKeepers.

 

Might this also apply to cd's in those Japanese plastic sleeves ?

Can anyone speculate ?