Warped records-new and old- thread.*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Johan Bos, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Larry I

    Larry I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    A "reflex clamp," like the one mentioned (has a washer around the spindle), will help with some warpage (but not so much an edge warp), provided that the platter itself is designed to work with such clamps. The clamp is really not there to cure warps--it is designed to tightly couple the record to the platter to damp vibrations in the record--but it does help with warps. I am less enamored with perimeter rings. They are hard to put on correctly and I am always afraid that careless use might cause an accidental bump of the delicate parts of the cartridge.
     
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  2. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez Forum Resident

    Clearaudio did the outer ring right. It includes a POM locator ring specifically designed for my POM platter. It attaches to the platter and provides a lip to set the ring on, with impressive precision. The top surface of the ring is nearly flush with the top surface of the record (<= 1mm lip). As long as you cue the tonearm reasonably well there is low risk for an incident. I trust a $6K cartridge to it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  3. jea48

    jea48 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Maybe in Sweden they are.
     
  4. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    True, the primary purpose is not to flatten warps, but in tightly coupling, it does fix some warps. I find with LPs that are just slightly dished (it’s not a miracle worker!), both sides benefit because of the “reflex” action of the clamping against the washer. I have examples on which the clamp actually seems to make it worse, too, though...
     
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  5. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Obviously limited to their own TTs but the Michell Orbe clamp deals with all but the worst dishes by using a raised centre ring over which a concave clamp forces the outer area of the LP down. Nearly all Lps are dished to some extent or another which is obvious when placed on the Michell platter but may not notice on many mats. Basically few Lps appear to be truly flat. Much more elegant than an outer ring which if you drop it will likely destroy your record and badly damage your deck. Far too inconvenient even for me.
     
  6. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez Forum Resident

    I don't mind the inconvenience of the ring, and it just makes me more cautious with the whole setup, which is a good thing, IMO. I have not ever let the ring slip, but I have a specific routine to using it, and I consider it very low risk. You are correct that my ring is proprietary to the Clearaudio turntables (and only for Ovation and Innovation models at that).

    My TT doesn't have a mat either and I see that many/most records have a bit of air underneath when sitting concave side up.
     
  7. Larry I

    Larry I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I think it was a Clearaudio representative that I spoke to about using a ring on my Basis Debut turntable. He said that he has used their ring on Basis tables and found that they offer an improvement in sound even when used with a table that has a vacuum clamp like my table. He said the improvement was smaller than is the case with tables that don't already employ such a comprehensive clamping scheme, but, there is an improvement. I might try the ring some day. It would certainly help with those records that have a slight edge warp that prove to be hard to get the vacuum clamp to seal properly at the edge.
     
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  8. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez Forum Resident

    That's the other thing for me. Once I went to a heavier clamp (850 gr) and the outer ring (at 1500 gr) it improved the sound. That was the main for it. Flattening dish warps is an added benefit.
     
  9. Johan Bos

    Johan Bos Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Hi, thank for all your replies! I finally decided to return the record. I got a new one, at first sight it looked perfect. It is much flatter and looks clean. I turned on my turntable and during the first seconds I heard a loud "plop" sound, three times in total, every about one second. After that the first track starts. The rest of the records sounds good, no further plop sounds. I inspected the first grooves and after some searching I managed to spot one small white dot. I have records that have similar spots, but they don't produce a loud plop sound like this one. I don't know what to do: just accept it, or return it again... I made movie with sound of the plops:



    (you hear some background noise of my camera)

    What do you think: is it acceptable for a new record? It seems to be difficult to just get good records it seems...
     
  10. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Not great but you can avoid it by cuing close to the start of the music (presuming this is on the run in). If the white dot is a piece of embedded paper a wet clean might remove it partially and reduce the plop.
     
  11. Aftermath

    Aftermath Senior Member

    Buying vinyl is a toss of the dice nowadays, so I'd probably keep that copy.
     
  12. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    So the problem is all before the music starts, just on the lead-in? If so, I would probably roll with this copy. As suggested, I would try to remove the spot with cleaning, and/or try to remember that one needs to be cued further in to try avoiding the spot with the stylus.
     
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  13. Zimbad

    Zimbad Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Idaho
    I have come to the realization that new warped records are the norm now. Has this always been the case? They still sound good and don't skip, but it is frustrating. The last four new records that I bought have been significantly warped. All four have been on different labels including a newer release by Blue Note. They are not warped enough to affect the sound, but it is still frustrating that they start out that way. I've been putting the new ones under a heavy briefcase far a while. It helps a little bit, but they only flatten out to small degree. Am I in the middle of a stream of bad luck or do you guys end up with the same thing?
     
  14. WaxHammer

    WaxHammer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Emeryville, CA
    Not just you, pretty epidemic. That Beatles 7” box set was a disaster, and I’m betting that new Stooges Funhouse box will be a warpage nightmare.
     
  15. The Trinity

    The Trinity Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Yup. I just bought the new Ozzy Osbourne album and it’s warped. I also get a light thump on every revolution. When I was a kid in the 1970’s, I never saw a new warped record. Now, I see them far too regularly. It all comes from poor quality control and handling practices.
     
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  16. lightbulb

    lightbulb Not the Brightest of the Bunch

    Location:
    Smogville CA USA
    Is it true that most warping of new vinyl occurs shortly after pressing, when the record’s temperature isn’t allowed to cool down properly?

    Given the high demand for the record pressing plants to churn out vinyl like hot cakes, I can imagine the assembly line being a chaotic mess.

    No fill, Excess vinyl trim, and Warpage given a free pass during QC.
     
  17. The Trinity

    The Trinity Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Correct.
     
  18. Alternative4

    Alternative4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Last time I returned a warped album (it was unplayable) I was almost accused of causing the problem myself.
     
  19. Omron

    Omron Forum Resident

    I’ve had a few hundred over the years but mostly flat records.
    In general if warped it goes back and if the replacement is warped I get a refund and try a different source and if that’s warped it goes back for a refund and I leave it for a few months before trying again.
    Or I get one of my friends abroad to get a copy for me.
     
  20. johnny q

    johnny q Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bergen County, NJ
    It's the norm unfortunately. So much so, we feel the need to post here that our new vinyl is "perfectly flat" when reviewing. Imagine back in the 70s, someone asked you how the new Stones record was and that was your reply?:)
     
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  21. golobali

    golobali Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hof, Germany
    My record dealer always makes a little cut in the shrink wrap at the slot-in on every record he gets to lower the tension.
     
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  22. hbucker

    hbucker Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Denver
    If it tracks/sounds okay, I agree with others about not worrying too much about it. I would be careful about higher volumes though. Warps like that can send unwanted low frequencies to your woofers that could become audible or even feed back or be damaging to the speakers. 80s era receivers often had Subsonic Filter switches on them that would assist in this kind of protection.

    Of course, price of the purchase is an issue. 99 cents vs. $50 is like night and day re: acceptability of this warp.
     
  23. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Warped records certainly are not the norm and I've only had one ( which was actually unplayable) in the last year or so. Slight even dishing tends to be quite common as opposed to warps that make your stylus go up and down. Anything you have to flatten with weights should be exchanged or returned.
     
  24. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City!

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    You must be one tough customer :o:cheers:
     
    Michael likes this.
  25. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    and why not?...answer, YES...a huge one. My money was hard earned...
     
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