Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by beenieman, May 25, 2023.
No, t'was Country, like this from 1940.........
"Is it ummmmmm..... (alternative lifestyle epithet) when you... ummm..... "
don't even have to finish the sentence
classical, blues, gospel... like a boss
Bad and nation-wide.
It's a stew. All influences are important regardless of the actual measurements of the ingredients. It's what makes R&R so damn American.
goosebumps and eyes-water in admiration after i watch that opening minute the 12th time...
The influence on rock ('n roll) that really gets ignored/denied is pop, for a bunch of reasons.
How so? Didn't the term "pop music" originate in the 60s?
There is white and black gospel particularly during the 30s through 70s. Elvis, Everlys, Johnny Cash, Wanda Jackson, etc., have made clear the powerful influence gospel had on their musical upbringing. White gospel was very aware of trends in black gospel and vice versa: songs, rhythms, arrangements, etc., The close harmony jubilee style was the usual influence as it was more melodic.
However, it was black hard gospel that dictated the quality of singer coming through gospel that had a massive impact on rock and roll. Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson, Clyde McPhatter, James Brown, etc., all came up through the black hard gospel circuit. Hard gospel quartets unleashed emotional vocal displays with screaming, crying, improvising, etc., Little Richard was a big fan of Brother May, Archie Brownlee, etc.,
The great Archie Brownlee, listen through to end to get a sense of his vocal power, screaming, pleading style:
Yes, gospel led directly to doo-wop which went hand-in-hand with 50s rock 'n' roll.
They were also influenced by R&B, which was a combination of gospel and blues. Ray Charles was largely condemned by the church for mixing the two.
I think you finally mentioned the real thing here, which no one so far has mentioned. Rock and roll was an end
result of numerous influences including blues, R and B, jump blues and gospel PLUS country and swing,
especially western swing. And all of these, especially western swing, led directly to rockabilly, which is probably
the purest form of early rock and roll. And Benny Goodman (with Gene Krupa) was rocking hard driving swing
all the way back in the late thirties and early forties.
I always like this clip from "The Benny Goodman Story" from the mid fifties where the audience is made up
entirely of teenagers who go crazy when the band plays "Bugle Call Rag". And it features Krupa, the first
rock and roll drummer.
No 'pop' was both a term and a thing long before that, before rock 'n roll or at least before rock 'n roll was recognized as a thing. And then continued to be concurrently. And most of the craft - songwriting, studio mastery, etc. - comes from there. But I don't so much see/hear this as a mixing of primary colors as more like different ways of doing things, that not only overlap and cross-pollinate but were always mixing up the same elements of melody/harmony/rhythm and different aspects of story telling and attitudinalizing and being a cultural tradition in the world. But, like so many terms, 'pop' has many uses and confusion abounds because folks mistake it's broader uses for it's narrower ones, and on and on. Hope this is somewhat clear, but it probably isn't.
And reductionism, in all its forms, is an anathema to me. FWIW. But it's hard to avoid.
Another factor muddying the waters, here and elsewhere, is the tendency for successive styles to be seen in the moment as opposites when they may (from a broader historical perspective) actually have a lot more in common than was immediately apparent.
Gospel is overlooked, imo. Besides 'Shine a light', I hear a lot of gospel leaning on Exile on Main St. Even if it has no element of church instrumentality, is not 3/4 time, etc. the function of repeating the chorus in pop songs is a very gospel thing to do,
who cares...on this forum....the beatles invented "both blues and gospel"!!!!!!!!!
I think rock'n'roll is a fusion of blues and country. Gospel is only really an influence inasmuch as the blues is a tributary of gospel.
Gospel, blues, country, western swing ... put it all in a blender ... rock n' roll
I would have never guessed this was 1944.
Think of how many later R&R people were born that year.
"Pop" is a sixties term. You're thinking of popular music, which which went back to big bands, swing and Bing Crosby.
The influence wasn't measured in gospel records sold, but by the Church experience. Coming from a Pentecostal background, I see the stamp all over early rock recordings. Elvis attended a Pentecostal Church not a quarter mile from the house he grew up in in Tupelo.
as in the "longhaired" listener when that meant classical appreciation
then the "longhairs" liked something else by the late 60s
What’s the difference? One is Saturday night and one is Sunday morning. Same person. Two sides. Yin Yang. Was Pops Staples a gospel or blues singer. How about Blind Willie Johnson? Gospel or blues? Did Mahalia sing the blues? She sure did