SH Spotlight We love LOVE! "Forever Changes" Elektra 1967 recording sessions and dates, studios, stories, etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    It's only $10. Just buy it.
    DTK and AlienRendel like this.
  2. tcbtcb

    tcbtcb Forum Resident

    sugar hill nh usa
    Went through something traumatic recently--and just now listening to the exquisite climax of "You Set the Scene" filling my living room, I quite literally had chills up and down my spine. And it occurs to me again that this is exactly what music, or any art, is created for. Not for the charts or the best seller list or whatever may or may not be fashionable during any particular era. The best works exists on their own terms, and will continue to generate powerful personal connections to listeners/readers/watchers many years after they are created.
    Chris M, icirider, Rupe33 and 6 others like this.
  3. psychtrailmix

    psychtrailmix Forum Resident

    Philadelphia, PA
    That is a very inspiring track. The album can be very dark throughout, but it ends on a positive note with that song. Forever Changes has been in heavy rotation lately for me, it's like it gets BETTER with each listen.
  4. psychtrailmix

    psychtrailmix Forum Resident

    Philadelphia, PA
    I really want to get the Love DVD of Forever Changes live.... do any of you guys have that, any good?? I've got the "Love Story" DVD and really love it, has Arthur walking around the "Castle" the band used to live in.... lots of great stuff.
  5. zobalob

    zobalob Senior Member

    Glasgow, Scotland.

    I like it....the Glastonbury performances are good too, here's a link to them lee love glasonbury
  6. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    The remix is the only track missing on the CC from the 2001 release.

    Would love a SACD with ALL the material from the 01 and 08 releases. Hate having to keep a CD because of one song.
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    What brought this thread back from the dead all of a sudden? Found my "chick with Forever Changes tape" story in it though, thanks!
  8. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Mid Atlantic
    Having listened to Forever Changes really closely a few days ago (Sundazed LP recut),
    I was struck by how bad the stereo mix was in terms of left right balance (I am not talking about the pallid or murky aspects). Is there any info on why they left righted instruments the way they did. Da Capo has a much better stereo mix IMO.
  9. PsychGuy

    PsychGuy Forum Resident

    The 2016 Love-in thread is alive and well.
  10. Lucidae

    Lucidae AAD

    Talk about an embarrassment in riches, two great sounding remasters of the album released within a year of each other.
  11. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    The "alternate mix" is the closest to a remix that you're going to get.
    It's great to my ears. The drums are centered and the vocals and guitars are split left and right.
    The way it was remixed, it's like Arthur and Bryan are in the room.

    It's too bad the multis are missing (I heard that too), a 5.1 remix would be incredible.
  12. rxcory

    rxcory proud marching band parent

    Portland, Oregon
    I was going through it, doing research, and clicking the "like" buttons - must have missed this one the first time around. Thanks for all the info.
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Sure, no idea how much of it is correct, though. Hope it's not too far off.
  14. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    I grew up in Ridgecrest at the China Lake Air Naval Station (my dad was in the navy) and there was a JITB and a A&W outside the base.
    We left California in 1969 and moved to Florida where there's no Jack In The Box, but the tacos, apple pies, and onion rings still lived in my memory.

    When I ran the record store and had the honor of driving the truck to Austin Texas to the big record show, I passed a couple of JITB's and made a vow that "I'm not leaving here until I eat a Jack In The Box". When we left Austin and hit I-10, I saw a Jack In The Box and pulled in with my co-worker screaming since he likes Wendys. "I haven't had any Jack In The Box since 1969 and I'm not leaving until I eat here" and we went inside. We placed our orders, my co-worker got his and sat down. I'm waiting then the counter guy gave my order to somebody else by mistake and the power went out. They gave me a pile of tacos, onion rings, a apple pie and a cheese burger to make up for it since they were ready to close. I was a happy camper since that's what I wanted. Those tacos tasted as good as I remembered them. I also had a Jack antenna ball on my car, it was a great conversation piece until it was stolen.

    Forever Changes is a great driving at night album, when everything is pitch black driving at 2am on I-10, it was in our cd changer in the truck.
    Steve Hoffman likes this.
  15. rxcory

    rxcory proud marching band parent

    Portland, Oregon
    I finally got to hear the mono mix; some songs sound phasey and folded-down while others sound focused and punchy and with noticeable mix differences. My verdict is that both mixes stink in their own way. :laugh: But what a great album, it's been on heavy rotation lately.
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Can you please list which songs you think are actual mono mixes and not fold-downs? Many thanks. A guess will be fine.
  17. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Forum Resident

    New York
    Very nice thread Mr. Hoffman! I've been going through the posts and I'm not sure anyone ever answered your original questions. I might be able to help with some. The dates you listed all look correct.

    -September 18th was the 2 orchestra overdub sessions-morning and afternoon with Jac Holzman and Arthur Lee present with Bruce's father Norman on viola at Sunset.

    -It's Jack Sheldon on the solo of "Between Clark & Hilldale".

    -The electric remake of "Andmoreagain" might be because Echols claims that Western had 8-track while Sunset Sound had 4-track-and with orchestration set for that number, perhaps they wanted it recorded without extra overdubbing. With all the orchestrated songs being done at Sunset, the electric remake may have just been ignored at that point and left at Western.

    -Bruce Botnick is quoted as being with Love at the Western Recorders sessions. Since Botnick was listed by Holzman as producer, perhaps he oversaw the Western engineer as co-producer with Lee. Not sure if he did the engineering or producing but he was in charge.

    -(Love "Wonder People" more than half the album! Jac Holzman and David Angel thought the song was the worst of the bunch-why it was left off.)

    -In September, Don Randi overdubbed piano on "Bummer in the Summer" and harpsichord on "The Red Telephone" at Sunset. No exact dates.
    Hope that helps with some of the questions-this post is 3 years old, so maybe they've all been answered anyway, but what the hey!:)
    Mr Bass and DTK like this.
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    That's fantastic information! Western had four track and Sunset Sound had eight track. I think Johnny got it reversed. But why they went to Western at all is a mystery. Da Capo was done at Sunset Sound and RCA originally, right? The first album was mostly Sunset Sound.

    Hmmm, when did Sunset get the eight track? Maybe I'm wrong there. What month was Sinatra's Something Stupid recorded at Western? That was four-track.

    None of this matters in life but it's interesting to me.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
    WilliamWes likes this.
  19. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Forum Resident

    New York
    Right, "Da Capo" was done at both. Arthur wanted a 'Rolling Stones' sound so they went to RCA-Dave Hassinger as the engineer who did "Satisfaction" recorded most of "Da Capo". Bruce Botnick at Sunset recorded "7&7 Is" (remember that was recorded months earlier for the single), and "Revelation"-of course Botnick mixed the whole album.

    Everywhere I've seen since I just checked looks like the Sinatra-Sinatra single was recorded February 1st, '67, the first song recorded for Frank's '67 album. "That's Life" was 1966 so it's possible that Western installed an 8-track by summer '67.

    I'll double check the Echols quote since I'm wondering myself now why they were in two studios. I'll have to post it a little later.
    Mr Bass likes this.
  20. deanrelax

    deanrelax Forum Resident

    According to John Einarson (no songs mentioned) - Overdubs also took place on September 14 and 15 at Leon Russell's home. Mixed the following day at Sunset sound in order to make room for orchestral overdubs. Final mixes after the above mentioned orchestra overdubs in three sessions on September 19-21
    DTK likes this.
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Pretty sure that is bogus info.
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    The Western stuff, according to Andrew was all four track 1/2", correct? If they had an eight track at Western they would have used it, but the HOUSE IS NOT A MOTEL session (before vocals were added) was four track for sure.
  23. deanrelax

    deanrelax Forum Resident

    Might be bogus, but its Bruce Botnick claiming that overdubs took place at Leon Russell's home (quoted by John Einarson in Forever Changes, the biography of Arthur Lee), the quote in full: "We did two vocal overdubs and maybe a guitar dub at Leon Russell's home. I remember Leon had frozen plates of bacon, hash browns, and scrambled efts in the freezer. You just took them out and heated them up. Arthur thought that was the funniest thing he'd ever seen". Hopefully, important issues like these will be addressed in the new book on Love being released in June (My little red book - Love day-by-day 1945-1971)
    WilliamWes likes this.
  24. Millington

    Millington Forum Resident

    Say, Steve MoFi did do it - but still no sign of Four Sail SACD
  25. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrup Gort Staff

    Montreal, Canada
    I see some mention of a 2 disc edition, but, despite my best attempts, I can't find any for sale anywhere.

    When was it released? Anyone have a link.

    I've looked on eBay, amazon, etc for a deluxe edition, a "2 CD" edition, it all points to a single disc with bonus tracks.

    Was there actually a 2 CD set?

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