well tempered classic spinning speed issue

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by plant, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    have my well tampered classic turntable and arm , square motor from the nineties , upgraded to black platter and arm.
    recently it started noticeable unstable and slower speed .
    it's like this for awhile.
    ordered and changed to a new belt . not sure if it helped, maybe a bit, but after some time it went back to same problem.
    can't know if the issue comes from the belt, or the motor, or other reason.
    read in some places about doing something to the motor spindle, but didn't understand it.
    other suggestion was to lubricate motor bearings , which i don't know where th y are.
    will appreciate any suggestion .
     
  2. SteveFord

    SteveFord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Shnecksville PA
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
    plant likes this.
  3. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    it's same dimensions that the original one.
    when you say "thicker, wider one" do you mean both of those dimensions have bigger value?
    do you own WT classic?
    how do you test the spinning speed.
    when i'm using the android app by putting my phone on the plater there is some place the the plater bends down, so u can't be sure about it.
    today i received between 32.28 to 33.80 average 33.12
    wow 1.9 %
    i think that the high wow is because the bending of the platter
     
  4. SteveFord

    SteveFord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Shnecksville PA
    when you say "thicker, wider one" do you mean both of those dimensions have bigger value?
    Yes.
    do you own WT classic?
    Yes and a square motor as well
    how do you test the spinning speed.
    Ears, I have pretty good pitch.

    Over on the Well Tempered Forum on audiocircle they made a production about how you should only use the same size belt as there will be sonic degredation otherwise. I'll stick for a belt that's going to last more than 6 months.
     
    plant likes this.
  5. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    thanks.
    can you point to the specific belt you are talking about, or all of those on the ling you gave me are those ?
     
  6. SteveFord

    SteveFord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Shnecksville PA
    That link is who I bought them from quite a few years ago.
    I went through the $45 stock ones like crazy before I gave up and ordered stouter ones.
    Haven't had any speed problems since.
     
  7. jesterthejedi

    jesterthejedi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix
    I’d say it’s the motor having issues and is likely showing it’s going to give out soon. See if you can hunt down the correct part if your willing/able to replace it. You already bought a belt, so unless it’s bad, troubleshoot the next thing. Other areas to check would be the actual motor, look for any gunk, dirt, oil, grease, lint/string buildup etc and clean it off. Test the motor by running it through a battery and see if you feel or hear any inconsistencies with it running. If the motor can’t be cleaned or any obvious defects found, I’d replace it.
     
  8. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    my question was how can i be sure which one is "stouter ones"
    is there any model name or a spec for it that i can check before ordering?
     
  9. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    i don't see any of those.
    someone suggested me to do some lubrication to the motor bearings, but i dont know how to get to it.
    what do you mean by "running it through a battery"?
    to replace the motor i have to be sure that this is the issue.
    above it i'm not sure you can get one on the market.

    p.s
    i bought the new belt from an amazon seller.
    who knows if its a genuine one?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  10. SteveFord

    SteveFord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Shnecksville PA
    plant likes this.
  11. Davey

    Davey NP: Maarja Nuut ~ Hinged

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I'd check to make sure the pulley on the motor shaft (spindle) is secure and not moving. I also wouldn't trust a phone app unless the phone was previously tested/calibrated with a table known to be accurate, my Samsung phone is very inaccurate. You can count the platter revolutions for 3 minutes at 33.3 RPM, should be exactly 100, or use a strobe disc for your power line frequency and a light source.
     
    plant likes this.
  12. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
  13. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    the pully goes up when you pull it, i think it's suppose to be like that since it was like that from the beginning and the screw on top of it that hold it is completely tightened .
    as for the spinning speed i can tell by my ears that there is an issue.
    i have the strobe disc, tried it and it was not so easy to determine.
    i'll try the "3 minutes at 33.3 RPM, should be exactly 100"
    very good idea.
     
  14. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    there is no option to attach an photo?
     
  15. Davey

    Davey NP: Maarja Nuut ~ Hinged

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    This site doesn't host images, you can only link to an image stored somewhere else that also allows sharing, like on imgur.
     
    plant likes this.
  16. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    unfortunately this seller does not ship to my area
     
  17. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    Remove the pulley from the motor shaft, then reinstall and tighten its set screw. If that is not doing it, then try a different belt as @SteveFord says.
    -Bill
     
    plant likes this.
  18. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    i'll try it
     
  19. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    The belt width and thickness can affect the speed, but it wouldn't be a gross speed error. The most likely problem is belt slippage, and/or oil somehow found its way on the belt. Try cleaning the belt and motor pulley.. and the platter with naptha. (lighter fluid or charcoal lighter for the BBQ) It is safe to use indoors but do have a window open!
     
    plant likes this.
  20. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    i ordered a new belt.
    will see if it's help.
    if not , i'll go to further steps
     
  21. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    i received today the new ticker belt.
    checked how many revolutions' it makes in 3.00 minutes.
    the old tinier belt makes around 99.3 revolutions'.
    and the new one around 100.
    i hope i am wrong but i think that i still hear some not stable sound speed.
    can be that the revolutions counting is right but something is still un stable?
    i'll check it again on some old basic turntable i have
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  22. SteveFord

    SteveFord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Shnecksville PA
    You put a twist in the belt, right?
    The Classic doesn't allow much room to move the motor (unlike the original square motor one).
    If it's not running true and it's not the voltage and it's not worn little nubbins from no oil in the spindle cup and it's not an oily platter section where the belt rides than it's your motor.
    Get one of those strobe discs and put a light on it.
    Here's an example (you have to click on Watch On YouTube):
     
    plant and jesterthejedi like this.
  23. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    thanks.
    i have a square motor but trying to move it closer or farther from the plater didn't make a big change.
    about the voltage, it can be, but i don't have a way to check it.
    and i think it's also have to do with the frequency.
    there is no oily belt , plater or pully.
    i use recently for the spindle cup suing machine oil. no t sure if it's the best one for it.
    what is "little nubbins" ?
    i have a smaller strobe compare to the one on video, had difficulties to work with.
    but i didnt use a light , i'll try again.
    hope it's not the motor, not sure i can get one and be sure it's work properly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  24. Davey

    Davey NP: Maarja Nuut ~ Hinged

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    If you are still hearing wavering on sustained notes, make sure you aren't listening to the effect of an off-center record, you can really only evaluate wow and flutter effects if the record has near perfect centering so that the tonearm isn't swaying back and forth at all, or up and down, for that matter. Unfortunately, many records are slightly off-center and/or warped, and quite a few are way off-center too.

    As mentioned above, Firebaugh has been an advocate of belt twisting to lower flutter, but you still shouldn't hear pitch wavering on a decent belt-drive table if playing a well centered and flat record.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
    plant likes this.
  25. plant

    plant Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    tel aviv
    i know what you mean.
    have one or two records like this.
    this is not the case.
    i try to do some additional checking again and se if it's only in my mind.
    as i said I'll compare it with another turntable i have , direct drive
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine