Were "Underture" and "The Rock" by The Who added to fill sides?*

Listening to The Who today. Just curious to the experts. Did they add Underture and the Rock just to fill out a side of vinyl? Both are instrumentals that are the same riffs. I don't mind either but they seem like they may have felt 'we need 8-10 minutes to make it a full double LP, so let's rearrange sparks and jam til the time is filled'.

Same with the Rock and Quadrophenia. One instrumental is great but the second seems redundant. Although right now I think I'd axe quadrophenia and keep the break between dr Jimmy and love reign oer me

 

"The Rock" is excellent, I wouldn't change a single note in Quadrophenia.
"Underture", on the other hand, has always sounded a bit repetitve for my taste.

 

The answer has to be to look at the material that was left off each release. Well, on Tommy you might be right - "Sparks" and "Underture" don't even vary the arrangement much but there wasn't much in the way of outtakes - "Model Child" perhaps?

Both "Quadrophenia" and "The Rock" were deliberate inclusions and treatments of the same thing - they do not sound alike and Pete particularly wanted the quasi-symphonic framing of the work between the first and last songs. There were plenty of songs that could have been used to fill up space if they were stuck.

 

I doubt it. Townshend was shooting for a "rock opera"--basically a rock & roll version of a musical or Broadway show. A characteristic feature of operas/Broadway shows/etc. is leitmotifs--musical themes that are returned to a number of times throughout the show in variations. It's a unifying idea, where you're looking at the entire body of songs as a suite, or almost like one, huge, multi-part song. Think of how you'll repeat a riff or other melodic hook at various points throughout a song. Well, in a larger structure like this, you'll repeat variations of themes to tie everything together.

It's more obvious if you listen to a lot of opera or musicals/Broadway soundtracks. It's just a common feature of those musical forms.

 

Typical Broadway get the audience settled before bringing cast back on stage.

 

Given that The Who still use The Rock in their live shows, I have to think that it was more than filler. Plus in my opinion it's vital to the structure of the entire piece.

 

leitmotif

 

Ok, but with underture you've already had the overture and sparks. Underture just seems to do the same thing as sparks which they played like 10 minutes before

 

You could make an argument for "The Rock" (although by the time it comes on I think you've heard the four themes more than enough) but I'm pretty certain "Underture" is only there to get the album to four sides. Tommy plays much more briskly without it and they didn't do it on stage.

 

But as noted, Underture returns to the Sparks (Rael!) theme, which unless I'm forgetting something, isn't heard elsewhere in Tommy.

 

Are you actually suggesting that one of my favourite track off Quadrophenia is filler???

I love The Rock although I prefer Quadrophenia (purely nostalgic reasons) and I love Underture too. I can never get enough of that theme!

 

Underture is obvious filler. It just repeats and expands what we've heard a side earlier. The Rock sounds more composed, more purposeful. I've always loved it.

 

Just the name, "underture," makes it worth the inclusion on its own.

 

Yeah, I love Underture as well.

 

My question is why didn't 'Who Are You' and 'Who By Numbers' have long instrumentals on them? It would have improved both.

 

Disagree.

Yet the Sparks/Underture demo contains the structure of what ended up as Underture, so it seems unlikely it was just thrown in at the last minute to take up space.

I disagree that Underture is nothing more than a rehash of Sparks. Yes, the basic theme repeats, but there's more there than what is heard in Sparks.

 

I am also a fan of "Underture" (although, or maybe because, the ending scared me the first time I heard the album when I was a kid).

 

" Underture" is the thematic counterpoint to the "overture" and uses themes, melodies, etc. from previous songs, to wrap up and conclude the first lp or first act of "Tommy."

 

In defense of the "Underture": When the "Rael" leitmotif first turns up , as "Sparks," it is the musical representation of Tommy's Amazing Journey inward. It shows up again, as "The Underture," immediately after "The Acid Queen" and so is the musical representation of Tommy's deaf, dumb, and blind acid trip. That's how I always regarded the two, anyway. As a teenage Who/Tommy obsessive, I had a nice magazine-sized book about all things Tommy which included Pete's original interview in Rolling Stone, where he first began formulating his plans for the opera, and there he talks about Tommy experiencing everything as musical sensations, which are provided by The Who. Ernie's molestation, Cousin Kevin's abuse, the Acid Queen's acid trip: the music represents what he feels, but doesn't see or hear.

 

Yes, yes, all good and valid theories that Kit Lambert himself probably would have loved, but the fact is, Tommy needed padding to fill out two LPs. Why else would it take up so much of side 2? Perhaps I would hear it differently if it were shorter, but it always came off as filler to me.

 

Why not?

 

It's too much of the same musical themes and ideas too soon, in my opinion. I love Tommy (one of my first albums) and I love Sparks, but Underture seems repetitious and too long to me.

 

You may feel that way, but it doesn't necessarily mean the song wasn't designed to be there.

 

Well, I suppose you could argue that it's Sparks that is unnecessary then.

 

I wouldn't argue either of them are unnecessary.