His whole shtick makes no sense to me. Assuming a person buys the Lintons because they like the sound they produce, why would they want to change the crossover to get a different sound? I'm sure Wharfedale could've built the crossover to get a perfectly flat frequency response. They didn't, they built it to sound the way it does.
The Linton's are made to a price but fancy components don't necessarily sound better. I looked at some of his other videos. He showed a Harbeth crossover which as I suspected was far too complex and components looked cheaper than the Linton. They are seriously overpriced speakers given the quality other than cabinet finish (even made in the UK). I am more looking forward to the Mission 770 revival model which is being made in the UK. I suspect it will be more expensive than Linton, but not coming from the Chinese factory we might see better crossover component quality.
Q150s are great especially if you can snag them at 50% off. They seem to be on sale a few times a year. I loved mine. They had great detail and clarity without any of the ice pick highs that my B&W had. The treble was perfect and detailed while remaining pleasant. If you have a smaller room check them out.
Peter Comeau who engineered the Lintons is the man behind the new Mission 770s so i wouldn't be surprised if these will be a good product, but i doubt if they will be in the price range of the Lintons more likely nearer the KLH 5s price if not more but i could be way off hopefully.
Something of a misquote - I currently own the Denton 80ths, which - although thick in bass and mids - lack top end air and soundstage. What I'm really looking for is that same character in the mids and bass, but with a more open and dynamic soundstage, and top end air. Not more treble, which is something of a misnomer RE the 'roll off' that is often reported with the 80ths.
Apologies for the misquote, I should know better than to rely on my powers of recall. The actual quote was... "Looking for strong mids, good imaging, plenty of top end and an impressive soundstage." So you can see how that could be reduced down to "seeks stronger treble" It has been my experience that there is some relationship between increased treble response and the perception of the spatial cues that inform the soundstage illusion. But this is an anecdotal observation and I know only enough about the topic to know that I know very little about the topic. Room reflections, speaker placement, cabinet resonances (that give away the locations of the speaker as the source of sound, which is another benefit of small rigid speaker boxes) all have a roll to play too... but speakers with a dull(er) top end - perhaps as a statement of the obvious - can be directly implicated in the lack of "air" you wish to address in your search. Obviously this doesn't mean one has to endure screamingly bright treble in order to enjoy superior imaging and staging, but perceivable top end roll off is the likely culprit here. I have no interest in proving points or being right. I merely make these comments to be of assistance. My suggestion would be to try speakers with a mildly stronger top end and see if this yields satisfactory results or at least points in the right direction. In regards to the character of the mids and bass I think you might find there's a lot to like about the Linton's. I'd be surprised if they didn't offer you more of what you already like about the 80th's and they may well open up just enough on top to give you some of the "air" you crave but they aren't as tipped up as some other current offerings. Since they are significantly larger than the other speakers under discussion here they will need some space around them and probably aren't suitable for smaller rooms and I will re-iterate the previously mentioned caveat that they aren't the best at imaging. I would also suggest seeking out Sonus Faber's recent Lumina 2 standmounts, I haven't heard them but as a previous owner of Sonus Faber speakers they might offer some of the midrange "velvet" Wharfedales do. And from what I've heard they have a livelier top end than some SF's of the past, and with a front firing reflex port may be easier to place too. Pure conjecture - but I assume they'd be slightly less "analytical" sounding than the KEF's. Beyond that - as another point of reference - I may even suggest listening to some ATC's (SCM 7's or 11's). They take a different approach to music making but I struggle to think of a more neutral and transparent speaker at anywhere near the price. And their tweeters offer superior extension without the stridency of many similar priced designs.
I agree with you. However in the case of the Linton's I’d say it’s a speaker that has the potential to frustrate and confuse new owners because it takes ages to run in properly and they may feel that out-of-box performance doesn’t live up to the (presumably run-in) demo and prematurely decide to engage in tweaking? And before I proceed I must admit I’m not a big fan of discussing break-in generally, not because I don’t believe it’s real - particularly in the case of speakers - I just get dubious when people make claims of gear requiring several hundred hours of running-in… when I hear that sort of thing I normally just roll my eyes at some of the things people tell themselves in this occasionally obsessive pursuit. I always wonder how a suggestible human mind, subject to all sorts of bias, moods, fatigue, etc can reliably track improvements over such a long period? And yet - I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to consider that over the course of the two months I’ve owned these speakers it’s taken just about this long for the last of the “haze” to disappear and I finally feel the speakers are revealing their true quality… which is surprisingly resolving despite being a radical departure from so many current price comparable speakers voiced to be bright and forward, presumably to grab attention in a demo situation but fatiguing in the long term. These speakers take a very different approach to reproducing music compared against (almost) any of the speakers I’ve owned before, laid back in their approach and apparently designed to preserve the musical performance intact, with enough insight to be satisfying without presenting a forensic “autopsy” of music broken into it’s constituent parts for analysis rather than emotional engagement. I must say, I’d be pretty apprehensive about handing them over for a major crossover rebuild for fear that precisely what makes their presentation special to me might be lost in the process!
Your description of the run-in process and the sound of the Lintons is right on the mark, Toneh. And while most of my 'problems' with these speakers have disappeared over the months, there's still one thing that I'm not entirely sure of. I cannot play music as loud as with other speakers. At a certain volume (depending on the recording), I feel they can become too much, perhaps uncomfortable or even 'aggressive'. I tell myself it's because the Lintons let me hear a fairly honest and full frequency spectrum (at least from 50Hz to 15kHz) and not some clever 'editorialized' sound, one that softens down certain areas in the the mid-range, especially in the range where our hearing is the most sensitive (hence the polite dip of the BBC speakers). At least, that's my theory, for now. Maybe other people have different ears and don't know what I'm talking about.
Glad to know I’m not going nuts And likewise happy to hear you have a similar experience of their approach to music making. Mmm, not sure what to say in response. When I have the place to myself I tend to listen louder. Recently I thought I would try one of those decibel meter apps to get some measurements to quantify what I subjectively consider as loud. I used two seperate apps to compare readings. I sit 2.5m away from the plane of the speakers in a localised listening area within a larger 31.5 m2/340 sq foot open plan space and both apps measured an average of high 70’s to low 80dB’s with transients peaking around 90dB’s at my listening position. I didn’t get the sense of any audible strain from the equipment at those levels but it was just starting to feel uncomfortably loud to me and I turned it down just a little… but not by much, haha. This is a key point… I do tend to listen to very well recorded and mastered music when I do sit down for a listen and my tastes veer towards fairly minimalist stuff, small ensembles or even solo works. Mainly well produced electronica and techno, jazz, folk and contemporary classical. But I listen to all sorts of stuff - I try to stick more to being a music lover than an audiophile - which means accepting all sorts of recording quality. Just the other day, I cranked up Nirvana’s classic “Nevermind” and boy did it sound horrible at volume… didn’t take long before I had to take the volume down. I could list several other recordings that would cause the same reaction. That said - I have owned speakers that I’d consider more “ruthless” than these, even less tolerant of lesser recording quality. I guess this is the compromise one accepts to extract the most from the best recordings? Might be useful to also check what sort of dB level this harshness is setting in on your side?
People often classify the tonal character of speakers as either 'forgiving' or 'revealing'. To me, even though I do get the feeling that the Lintons have smoothened up over the months, they don't turn a blind eye (or turn a deaf ear) to less than stellar recordings. So while the Lintons don't have the super detailed treble (often seen as synomymous for 'revealing' as many of their contemporaries (For instance, I can hear more mouth sounds during someone's singing with the Dentons 85), their rather honest, unveiled mid-range does tell me whether I'm listening to a recording made in 1975 or in 2015. My Dynaudio Confidence 1 'bookshelves', which I still have (so I can compare) always gave me the impression that they are honest 'Danes' but I discovered that they actually have a distinct house sound, making every album more smooth and refined than it really is. Not so with the Lintons, so I do see the them as a reveiling speaker, mostly because of their full mid-range, which is still the region where most things take place. they make every recording sound vastly different. And if a recording has nasty frequencies, the louder you play that recording, the louder and more apparent the nastiness becomes.
PS: I just listened to 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' and ... I know what you mean, especially when the distortion guitar kicks in.
Do all the Linton owners in the thread have matched pairs? Or maybe the better question is does anyone have non-matched pairs? I’m wondering how much of an aesthetic difference it would make to get a couple open box non-matched speakers and save a few hundred dollars, even accounting for package discount with stands when I buy them separately later. I tried out some Rega RX-5s a few months ago that were bookmatched and they were beautiful. But those have a lot more of the wood showing on the fronts and sides. Edit: I’m looking at walnut. I assume matching blacks ones wouldn’t make a difference at all.
I had an unmatched pair in Walnut when I first got them. I took advantage of the opportunity and kept the one that I liked the most. To be honest, while the motif was considerably different, I don't think anyone would have noticed the difference. It's something you mainly care about when they are new.
Do you mean you ended up with a different pair? I’m not sure what you mean by keeping the one you liked most.
@Swordsandchains - is this enough of a comparison to convince you either way? As a Linton owner I think he said enough to capture the sound of the Linton but I wonder if that was a detailed enough for your needs?
Mine are Walnut and they aren't a matched pair. Not great (every other pair of wood veneered speakers I've ever owned were book matched) but not the end of the world either. Well, not to me anyway, mine are so heavily toed-in I only ever look at them face on That said - I think you'd be right about the black oak finish mattering less. I was pretty interested in those when I made my purchase. But with all the (assumed) delays in getting new stock all the way down to New Zealand I was happy to go with the Walnut which is a veneer I like.
yes, i was mainly interested in his comparison with the Model 5s. Was surprised to see a mention with the Magnats. but i think this seals the deal for me. Crutchfirld just got the Black Oak in stock it looks like but no bundle deal with the stands, so i think im going to call and see if theyll bundle for the same price as walnut and mahogany
Yeah - good man! Hopefully they'll be able to get them to you soon. I look forward to your impressions when they arrive and happy to swap notes during the running-in period, which is loooooooong. I'll possibly be a little envious of them in Black, haha.
i really like the red mahogany but if they ever end up anywhere else besides the basement in the house, WAF will be important haha
I have been involved in 3 GR Research upgrades (2 Klipsch, 1 Dynaudio), and each time, there were appreciable sonic and measured improvements. I think what happens many times, are people that are new to hifi, are romanced by advertising and hype, buy a speaker without a lot of experience, only later, after living with it for a while, to find out it has some glaring sonic problems. Now, they have some money sunk into something that their now, more educated ear, can detect the problems. An upgrade may be a good stop gap way to get to the next step without having to start from scratch. The first GR Reasearch upgrade I helped with, was a friend's RP-600M. For the $230, it was unquestionably worth it. The speaker went from being unlistenable to me, to being a pretty decent speaker. For my friend, the upgrade allowed him to live with the speakers quite a bit longer than he was planning, before he bought something better. It allowed him to save up more $$ for his next step, and become a more experienced listener, so he could make a better decision next time . I heard the Lintons long before I read a review or saw GR Research's upgrade vid, and I thought I was listening to a speaker from the 70's, and not in a good way. No imaging, slow bass, muffled at the crossover points, and some more problems I can't remember at the moment.
Wow! Many assumptions there I’m not new to hifi. In fact I’m 20 years into hifi. I’ve owned systems with speakers cables that cost more than the entire system I run at the moment But I burned myself out chasing the dragon and walked away from it all until just recently. The Linton’s represent a massive departure from the sound I previously pursued… which was all about detail and insight über alles. These Linton’s by contrast just play music, the detail is there if you want to listen for it but they aren’t some analytical instrument in a rush to tell you things that aren’t relevant to the musical performance. Are they perfect? No, of course they aren’t. Am I some wide eyed noob who doesn’t know any better or someone trying to justify a purchase I regret to myself? No. No I’m not. I’m someone who holds fast to the ethos that people are free to think and do as they like and I make a point of never telling people what I think they are and aren’t hearing in their own systems. And I don’t have to convince anyone of my opinion to validate my own choices. Some people like to tweak and tinker… some people know what they like when they hear it and are happy to enjoy it as it is. And even with speakers like these - built to a price - somehow I’m inclined to rely on the judgements of someone of Peter Comeau’s stature rather than some guy on the internet with a commercial interest in suggesting dissatisfaction with the off-the-shelf product. No offense to the guy in the video, I’m sure he makes his comments and conducts his business in good faith.
I kept the speaker that I liked the most and returned the other one back to the store, told them to give me the correct one, so that I have a matched pair. The store didn't even realize that the Lintons come in matched pairs.
