Thanks for all the additional information @NNNZZZ Mmm, where to begin? Out of interest - how did you decide on the Linton’s? Did you listen to any other speakers to compare before the purchase? In other words what made you choose these? Because when you say “I don't feel that jumping out and grab you type sound” that is pretty much the definition of what an audio reviewer might describe as “laid back” as opposed to “forward” where the presentation of the music is literally in front of the plane of the speakers, kinda coming at you. Some might even say in your face, grab you by the lapels sort of sound. And sorry to say but the Linton’s are a pretty laid back speaker. They haven’t been designed to present music in that “forward” sort of a way. Many modern speakers are designed that way. They sound very impressive and detailed in the showroom precisely because they do kinda jump out at you… that’s why I ask how you decided on the Linton’s and if you compared them to anything else? As for the Yamaha… it is actually a decently lively sounding amp. Even if you were to get something that sounded more conspicuously “fast” whatever you hook them up to… the Linton’s are still going to sound pretty laid back. And as for “muscle” the A-S801 has plenty of it… more than enough to drive these Wharfedales anyway. So to summarise: unless I’m missing something, what I understand when I read your reply is… you may prefer a more forward sounding speaker? Because from what you’ve described I don’t think the Yamaha is the problem. However if what you mean is… you’re actually ok with this laid back presentation but perhaps you’re not hearing as much detail as you’d like or you’re not getting enough top end “sparkle” for your taste… well that could perhaps be partially address by other means. So of those two “options” which one would you say sounds more accurate?
@Toneh Thanks for the insight. Very helpful. I landed on the Linton's in part because a lot of the more forward sounding speakers tend to be more fatiguing for me. Or sitting too much in a treble/shrill range for my liking. The smoothness of the Linton's was more my taste. Your input on the amp is helpful. I guess what I was ultimately asking was "does anyone think the A-S801 feels thin for speakers like the Linton's" and it seems you are answering "No" which is comforting. I tried them with the Rogue Sphinx and Cronus Magnum III and wasn't impressed that much over something like the A-S801 to justify the price. I was just trying gauge if anyone else felt there was a more muscular amp to pair with the Linton's or if the A-S801 was well within that description. I also demoed speakers like Totems Skylights, Dali Oberon, KLH Kendall and even some Graham and Harbeth models. Ultimately, it started to feel like analysis paralysis and I pulled the trigger to continue my audio journey. Maybe the jury is still out on the Linton's for me. I'd be curious to know what else you compared them to and why you chose them! Thanks!
@Toneh To answer this question "However if what you mean is… you’re actually ok with this laid back presentation but perhaps you’re not hearing as much detail as you’d like or you’re not getting enough top end “sparkle” for your taste… well that could perhaps be partially address by other means." I think I am "maybe" okay with the laid back presentation but not hearing as much detail to my liking...
Thanks again for the replies. Sounds like you and I have the same dislike of forward/shrill sounding speakers, so that’s one thing we have established and we can take our conversation further from there. Ironically, I was actually into that sort of sound in my earlier days as a hopelessly addicted, serial upgrading audiophile. I built high priced systems back then centered around the goal of extracting maximum information from recordings. In retrospect the various system iterations must’ve sounded bright and lean as hell, but that’s the effect of tunnel vision for you. Ultimately it became more about the gear and less about the music and I walked away from it all in frustration. My current, modest system represents my first foray back into quality replay of music in years. If it’s of any assistance or comfort I found the Linton’s a little “dark” and lacking a little openness and sparkle when I first got them hooked up to the Yamaha. So I tried the experiment of changing the co-axial cable that runs between my primary source (BlueSound NODE) and the DAC in the Yamaha to something that might open up and brighten the overall sound. I opted for the Voodoo cable you’ll see in my profile which is a silver conductor and to my ears it did the trick. And because of the laid back nature of the Linton’s that we’ve already established in our conversation so far, the system/speakers were tolerant of that change without the sounding becoming shrill or screechy. In short it seems to only let through the good stuff… an apparent increase in transparency and sense of there being more detail being passed through the speakers. Next came a replacement for my long time “go-to” speaker cable - Canare 4s11, which is a dirt cheap “pro” audio product. I was first introduced to these cables by the dealer who sold me a pair of ATC SCM 19’s back in the day (as revealing a speaker as you’re likely to hear) and they made a mockery of some of the crazy amounts I had spent up till that point on audiophile cable brands* and therefore made a lasting impression. The speakers I sold to buy these Linton’s were bi-wired so I needed a new pair set up for single pair connection. Anyway - once again the Canare’s delivered… great extension top to bottom, great transparency, openness and a real sense of dynamic impact. That livened up the presentation a little more again. And again the speakers were tolerant of the upstream changes without spoiling the very qualities I love about them. Lastly… and this is something I’m not 100% comfortable discussing because I can never quite convince myself I’m not somehow engaged in a form of self-delusion. But it appears these speakers take ages to run in properly… some say 200 hours or so until they really come into their own. That’s not something I either encountered or paid attention to before but I’m inclined to agree. And others have confirmed similar experiences. All of the above have somehow combined to produce a sound I’m pretty satisfied with now. Plenty of detail if you chose to listen for it, but very much a part of the musical whole… not a dissection of a recording into it’s constituent parts. And still that laid back ease that encourages long listening without fatigue. So while I’m not suggesting you ought to follow my formula and I’m not directly recommending the selection of the same components I’ve assembled - what I am suggesting is some experimentation with a similar approach. Look for opportunities to brighten your upstream components to hopefully achieve an increase in “liveliness”? Perhaps you might also be able to strike a balance that feels like the best of both worlds? As for the A-S801 - power (muscularity?) isn’t it’s issue - review site Audioholics bench tested their review sample as having a continuous output of 105wpc, 8 Ohms and a +/- 75% increase to 185wpc @ 4 Ohms all under 0.01% THD-N (in other words well below clipping) Which needless to say is enough to drive the snot out of a pair of Linton’s But I suspect you mean the Yamaha’s sonic character… not its power output right? Well that one is a bit harder… because that will come down to personal taste. The reason I think it’s a good match is due to the amps mildly cooler tonality and speed. Having heard the Linton’s partnered with warmer sounding or less “controlled” sounding amplification they can get a little boomy and flabby, lacking in articulation and tunefulness in the bass for my taste… The Yamaha’s marginally leaner, tighter bass is the right compliment to avoid playing to the speakers worst tendencies IMO. And I suspect the Yamaha has a slight upper midrange/presence region bump in its response, which again can give an agreeable little boost to the Linton’s more subdued than usual top end. But these are just my opinions and if you’re ultimately still not happy, well then my opinions alone won’t be satisfying to you. Which is fair enough. *I don’t begrudge anyone their enjoyment of high priced cables, nor do I deny their performance. The Canare’s just changed my perspective on why I’d ever want to spend crazy money that way again. I’m open minded though and we’ll see where experimentation will land me in the future.
@Toneh great info all around. I definitely will play with some of the ideas you put out there. One follow up question, did you ever try any of the higher tier Yamaha amps like the A-S1200 on up? Curious if that paired better or worse with the Linton's compared to the A-S801. I know many people are more than happy with the A-S801 but I'm curious specifically with the Linton's. I've heard those amps with other speakers so I don't have a direct comparison. Thanks again!
You're welcome. Unfortunately I haven't heard that particular pairing. Although I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts if you do! From what I've gathered from forums posts around here the upper tier amps are a bit richer sounding than the A-S801 and really, reading your comments that may be a little of the direction you're after right? Since you've heard them in action before does sound about right? Although as you've noted it can be difficult to transpose experiences unless in direct comparison. Let me know if you are able to hear them together?!
Some Linton fans feel the same as NNNZZZ and choose to modify the crossover. There's somebody here who has done exactly that and he appears to be very happy with the extra detail. He has posted his findings in this thread. I'm waiting for the Spanish reviewer (who loves the Lintons but decided to have them modified anyway) to hear what he thinks about his 'new' Lintons 2.0. During the first month that I had the Lintons I was interested in having them modified as well, but as the months passed by, I sorta lost interest. I'm actually happy with the way they are now. Even today, I have the impression that the Lintons are still 'changing' and I'm well beyond 200 hours of running them in. There was a drummer who reacted to a video of the Spanish reviewer and he said he would never change the treble of the Lintons because he recognizes how the bell of ride cymbals sound on them. And he's exactly right about that. I would even go further, on many speakers, the ride cymbals feel like they lead a separate live away from the drum kit, but on the Lintons, they become an integral part of the instrument.
The Yamaha, in direct mode, has a flat frequency response. Any sound problems will be to do with the voicing of the speaker or its position in the room. When I auditioned these speakers, I thought the bass sounded disconnected from the rest of the speaker and too weighty. I have a pair of Denton 80ths which I really like.
Not my experience at all and I've been auditioning them for 8 months now. Many factors could lead to different results: room response, positioning, loose screws, ...
I've had Lintons for 9 months. As everyone writes, the period of breaking them out took a long time. Recently, I was listening to them all day with the Yamaha A-S701 and was delighted. Although this combination has less depth, emotion and a less well-ordered stage than the Lintons with Ayon using El34 tubes, the pleasure of listening to the Lintons with Yamaha was very great. What's more, in the case of the analog source, the Pro-ject x2 with the AT33PTG / II cartridge and listening to classical music like Swan Lake and The Nutcracker Tchaikovsky's, Yamaha as a power amplifier surpassed the Ayon.
More examples of people who put their Lintons against the wall (and into the corners). And another one who opted for 'modification' ... by adding a super tweeter.
Hi everyone I am a happy owner of the Lintons .. I would like to improve the sound of the mids and highs .. I would like to have a more brilliant and detailed sound. at the moment my system is Blusoundnode 2021 Primare L22 Linton My first step to upgrade i want chance the amply I have 1000/1200 euro to spend Ideas ? any suggestion ? Sorry for my english Thx a lot
Not sure getting another amp will do what you’re looking for, as the (presumed) I22 Integrated amplifier is well over 1200 euro already? Maybe consider going with silver interconnects and speaker cables. Those tend to be more clear and open than copper. You can easily spend 1000 euro of course … I don’t know what’s available in Italy but I recently got a Synergistic Research Foundation interconnect ($600), between my pre and amp. I believe this improved the resolution of the system significantly. I do also have silver ICs between my DAC and pre. My speaker cables are copper though. PS/Edit: this comment assumes you’re using the analog output of the Node. Have you tried using the digital output of the Node into the Primare? IIUC it also has a DAC. One may sound better than the other. Maybe they’re not different enough to make a difference in this regard. In that case, using the Node analog output via silver interconnect, and silver speaker wire should give you the most detailed/resolving highs your system is capable of. Of course, YMMV and there may be copper solutions that would work as well.
No need to apologize, your English is fine... and vastly better than my Italian I have just been on the same quest - trying to coax more detail and clarity from my beloved Linton's and I think I've just succeeded with a combination of cables and a new DAC (a Topping D90SE) which I believe will fit inside your budget. I will type a more detailed response later, but may I ask... what cables do you use at the moment? P.S - I also happen to be very familiar with the Primare sound (having owned several pieces of their gear)
Thx mate , ATM i have this cable 5 mt van den hul cs 122 (2,5+2,5 for speaker) van den hul the name (Connect node to Primare) Thx mate
Well, as luck would have it I also used to own VDH speaker cables and interconnects... although I don't remember which one's now, but I'm pretty sure I started with cs122 for the speakers. While Van den Hul is a respected brand in my opinion their cables sound quite "heavy" and slow, with a overly weighty tonality (particularly in the bass) and quite veiled, rolled off treble. In other words they play to the worst tendencies of the Linton 85th's if your goal is increased transparency and detail. In my view simply changing the cables could go a long way to solving your issue and is 100% where I would start. Having owned many expensive audiophile cables (incl. Nordost, Wireworld, Van den Hul, Transparent, Analysis Plus, etc) I am now a big believer in "pro" cables because i think that the performance they offer vs. expensive, snobby audiophile cables makes a mockery of some of the money I've spent on those over the years. But that is just my view. At the moment I have a combination of Mogami & Canare cables in my system (check my profile) And I'm happy to talk more about those with you. But for now let me say, it might be a bit shocking when you first insert them into your system... depending on how you feel about the performance of the VDH's it could all sound a bit thin at first. I assure you this isn't the case! It is merely as if one has been accustomed to a high fat diet and now changing to regular food. But in it's place you should hear a very noticeable uptick in clarity and perhaps an improved sense of speed. I bought from this guy Custom Mogami RCA Audio Cables at audiocables.eu and he was really great to deal with. I may try out these Mogami 3103 4mm Speaker Cable w/ Gold Hicon Banana Plugs instead of my Canare speaker cables at some point... but for now my recommendation remains for the Canare's since I have not heard the Mogami so I cannot make any meaningful comment. Secondly I also use a 2021 NODE as my source. I have it hooked up to a Topping D90SE DAC with one of these Mogami 2964 RCA 75 Ohm Digital Coaxial S/PDIF Cable w/ Amphenol Gold Connectors The NODE is pretty good by itself via it's analogue outs but there is no doubt that there is a noticeable increase in "air", clarity, detail retrieval, liveliness and "sparkle" when connected via the DAC. By comparison the analogue output from the NODE itself is "greyer", lacking colour and "juice". It's not a crazy "night and day" difference, but it's easily heard and hard to go back once you know it's there. But I would start with the cables first. See if that points you in the correct direction. Have a look at this video too...
Wow, sounds like an inexpensive cable change might just do the trick, IIUC Mogami or Canare based cables shouldn't be too expensive. I snagged a Topping D90SE DAC at 15% off during a 'Black Friday' sale at Shenzhen Audio ... if you're willing to wait almost another year (this was in November, they began it on 22 November (a little early)), that might take things up another notch. PS:/Edit: I see the Primare has “Power: 2 x 80W into 8Ω, 2 x 160W into 4Ω” which is excellent. The Lintons are pretty sensitive but their impedance does go to a little under 4 ohms at some frequencies. The amp shouldn’t have problems driving them though. Wharfedale Linton Heritage loudspeaker Measurements
Years back I would've recommended Nordost hands down, I was a huge fan. These days - as i said above, I'm a big fan of what these "pro" cables do for a relative pittance. And not just in a good "for the money" way either... I mean good period. Each to their own... But yes, having just been through this process myself I do think a change of cable - away from VDH for sure - will get @Simonecosta75 quite a ways there and as you say a carefully chosen DAC with a complimentary sound signature (like the Topping) will "take things up another notch." I would be fascinated to hear the Topping in the context of another system, with brighter speakers - I hear it as quite neutral, while still offering quite a well lit take on the music with plenty of detail and clarity on offer. Also very refined. High end sound on a (almost) beer budget as it were? 15% off is quite a tidy saving! Congrats
