What Are Some Affordable but Efficient & Worthwile Graphic Equalizers

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by AcidPunk15, Oct 16, 2018.

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  1. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    You have a quite nice receiver, and good speakers. It shouldn't be necessary to "increase the bass" out of those ELACs, they have pretty strong bass already. Which makes me wonder if there is some other problem going on in the way of settings or some room problem. Do you have this urge out of both phono and CD and streaming? Or just with a certain source(s)? What is your room setup like?

    The other possibility is you just need (want?) more powerful speakers, or if you really want stronger bass, a subwoofer. There is a limit to how much can be gotten out of a 6" cone even by a designer as smart as Andrew Jones. And tiny ported cabinets by their nature simply cannot put out the very lowest bass, like for specific example the fundamentals of a kick drum.

    The reason you're finding a lot of discouraging comments is that generally equalizers get used like a kind of Band-aid, when what a system really needs is surgery. And more equalizers were NOT designed for fidelity, just to look flashy at lowest cost.
     
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  2. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    Back in the early '80s, I got one of those BSR 12-band EQ's and I have to say, as a guy who ended up working with much more professional-quality equipment as my access to better and better radio production studio progressed, I'm glad I got this "toy" to get my feet wet! Because I had this in my own home system, I got a good, first-hand experience with what an EQ can do, and what a set of ears can do through constant trial and error. From Talking Heads to Kitaro, from Glenn Miller to the Philadelpha Orchestra, Enya to Steve Perry, I experiemented both under headphones and outside in the living room, CD and LP, cassettes and...well, more cassettes...and I got a better appreciation of what I was listening for, what I wanted to get from my system, and how EQ could help, and affect, and improve, and deteriorate the sound of my system, and the sound of my music.

    And I couldn't have had this experience and perspective without that $109 12-band graphic rack-mount at my house...even though I had some nice, tight studios at work to twiddle around with. But without my own rig, I wouldn't have known what I was doing in the office. And later, once I finally got a handle on what the parametric units could do in terms of notching, and boosting and re-shaping...man! Now I don't even have the ears to appreciate what I can still do (or, have a pretty good idea what I can do now, even if I don't actually hear it precisely anymore...heard it enough to know what it is I'm missing ehough to tweak with it, even "blind").

    Point is, yes, not a lot of the street models at a popular price will satisfy you forever...but it'll give you an idea what you want an EQ for, learn about about what you're looking for and...just like when you bought that Close-n'-Play early-on...will be able to not only get something better once you can appreciate it...but you'll eb able to appreciate it!

    (And yeah, I imagine the Beringers at this price/quality level will more than satisfy...I do worry about "noisy" controls in that range though, and that may not even bother you, while you're getting more sophisticated with the equipment and your abilities!)
     
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  3. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    +1 on the BSR EQ

    They made some nice models and if you can find a nice one with Manual and Mics still with it, it is a nice unit for troublesome rooms and masterings/recordings.
     
  4. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Classic Rane PE15, PE17, or SP15 mono parametric EQ. Also has a subsonic filter built in.

    [​IMG]

    All-analog units have been far surpassed by digital eq, whether outboard rack units, or even the EQ built in to your media player or stereo receiver, which can perform the EQ on your 96kHz/24 bit digital input.
     
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  5. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    The Rane parametric units posted above by @harby sublime and these last a lifetime. They're not cheap.

    A parametric EQ is more musical and flexible, the graphic EQ easier to use. If adding any EQ in a system go for odd iso centers, not even. Most 10 bands are even harmonic centers, the worst possible way to design an EQ. I ask myself why most consumer grade EQ units are 10 band? A 7 band would be more musical, or a 15 band. Pioneer offered the SG-90, a 17 band eq that really sounds wonderful. However it has too many features/ connectivity to multiple decks, cross fade features (that aren't needed which are out of circuit when not used) I have serviced 4 of these, not the simplest device to work on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  6. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
    Firstly according to your profile you have an analogue system. In fact from what you say you want tone controls.

    Unfortunately there was - perhaps still is - a fashion for no tone controls because firstly they were said to add 'noise' and secondly we are supposed to hear the unaltered sound 'as the music makers intended', whether we like it or not.

    There are two basic types of equalisers (EQ): digital and analogue. The old type EQs were analogue and could be connected to a pre amp using RCA cables. Digital EQs are more recent and some are meant for the professional community so have XLR terminals (e.g. many Behringer products) but they offer more possibilities then analogue ones (you can buy XLR to RCA cables).

    Graphic equalisers (GEQ) have specific frequencies that they adjust. A 32 band one can adjust 32 frequencies! Basically just more tone controls ( bass and treble knobs are effectively a two band GEQ). The width of the adjustment (known as 'Q' - how wide the adjustment spreads into adjacent frequency bands) is usually fixed, though digital EQs can adjust the Q. The choices you have therefore are which of the named frequencies you wish to increase or decrease their loudness. GEQs can be used to help with room interactions or as glorified tone controls. Digital ones can store a number of presets for different arrangements.

    Parametric equalisers (PEQ) can control an exact frequency that you can select and the Q of that adjustment. PEQs can have five, ten or more bands. They are usually used to help control specific room problems, mostly in the bass region, but could be used as tone controls.

    I use a Behringer DEQ2496 Digital equaliser. This is a sophisticated pro product with XLR terminals and a host of features including a GEQ and PEQ. I use it only for adjusting the in room response, not as tone controls. I've read in many places that it is noisy and they don't last very long. None of this is true in my experience. I can hear no noise or any other damage to the sound, and I've had it twelve years now without an issue.
     
  7. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    The root of all evil :

    [​IMG]
     
  8. AcidPunk15

    AcidPunk15 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    This is great hahahah did you make it.
     
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  9. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
  10. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Someone posted it on FB; thought it'd be funny. No politics involved, of course:D
     
  11. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Equalizer is fancy tone controls. Be careful with boosting any frequency. Especially if you're playing music loudly. Can damage speakers if you're not careful. Best tone controls are those designed by your preamplifier or receiver's manufacturer.
     
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  12. heathen

    heathen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Maybe a good loudness "button" would help you. The Fletcher-Munson curve is well-established, and it might be that implementing a loudness curve would be enough to make things sound better to you. Yamaha implemented this nicely with their variable loudness control. I don't know if you can get a discrete EQ unit that will have the same functionality. The important feature of the Yamaha variable loudness is that as you increase the volume, the curve changes appropriately (other manufacturers have done this as well, but I don't remember off the top of my head who they are).
     
  13. jeffmackwood

    jeffmackwood Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ottawa
    To the purpose stated in the OP, and with reference to OP poster's system profile:

    1. Use the Denon's tone control. It will provide up to +12dB of boost (frequency not stated in owner's manual but assume it's ~100Hz). It will be active (and beneficial in your case) down to where your Elac speakers will be dropping off anyhow. My guess is you will enjoy the effect.

    or

    2. Invest that $100 you would have spent in a $100 on the equalizer on a used subwoofer. At that price, and with some luck, you could easily find something that goes at least an active lower than your speakers, and has sufficient output to integrate with your speakers. Suggestion (and everyone will have a different preference!): my favourite used subs in that price range are the Yamaha YST series. You would be very happy with the YST SW-160. They usually list for $125-135, so a $100 offer might work. And I'm sure they come up for sale in your area from time-to-time. (I bought mine in Phoenix for $80 while on a business trip a number of years ago, spent $20 on packing material, and took it home as checked luggage - back when I could check three 75lb items for free!)

    Good luck.

    Jeff
     
  14. AcidPunk15

    AcidPunk15 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    You guys have all turned me off to the idea of an equalizer. Either gonna spend that money on a new Cartridge or on fixing my TT.
     
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  15. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Too bad. I think you should get an equalizer, and learn what it does, how it might make an improvement, and how it could damage and destroy your sound when it is set badly. Find any working 10 or 12 band (in each channel) one in a thrift or the auction site, play with it, learn it. At around the cheap $50 level, you wouldn't be looking so much for the total quality of the equalizer but to get the experience of learning what it can do. As noted in an earlier message in this thread, just a +1.5db boost in just one band could make a world of difference, either improvement or disaster.
    The knowledge of this will be very valuable to you. You asked about it, you are ready for it.
    Then you could sell it, or just not use it but have it handy when something needs a bit of EQ change.
    Or, the new Behringer, 15 band, linked above for $100 looks pretty good for its price.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  16. I use a DSP which i can bypass completely whenever i want. I use it only on a few albums where the bass blooms because of room accoustics. I have on many occassions played albums using it and then bypassing it and i can say without any doubt the sound is not in anyway ruined by the DSP. I have blind tested 3 friends and they could not tell any difference in sound quality at all. Used properly a good DSP is nothing but a huge bonus.
     
  17. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I think the appeal of the Loki is the simplicity (just 4 "zones" of adjustment). I would not get something more elaborate, unless I wanted to start playing audio engineer...
    The "multi-band" equalizer (with "sliders") was part of the reason audiophiles came to reject equalizers in a serious stereo setup (or even "tone controls", for that matter...)
    Most folks don't know how to use equalization in a sensible way, and after "playing with" them in their systems they are far adrift from the actual sound of the source.
    That is the risk, but I do think the Loki equalizer is useful, but I only use it judiciously.
     
  18. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I agree.
     
  19. BIG-JG

    BIG-JG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    Schiit Loki is awesome, I have had one for about 4 months and love it.
     
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  20. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    To over simplify, there are two ways to get an impressive frequency response out of a system:
    Get an EQ and turn up dead areas of your frequency response so that the dead parts get real loud and dead sounding but real loud.
    OR fix the problem.
    Move speakers around looking for much better response in your room.
    Your speakers WERE designed to play well in the testing room where the designer listened to them as he designed them. Perhaps they were even "perfect" there.
    But in YOUR room they suck.
    Because your room is KILLING them with bad reflections sucking the life out of them.
    So LEARN YOUR ROOM.
    Move those boxes, son.
    Go read some books on how to tune a room.
    "Get Better Sound" by Jim Smith will teach you a ton.
    'The Sumiko Method" of speaker moving is a must.
    ALMOST everything an EQ can do to "fix" the dead notes can be done BETTER by moving stuff in the room.
    Or moving where YOU are sitting.
    And when you are done that stuff will not sound DEAD!
    EQ will NEVER give your system "life."
    And if you have weak bass perhaps your woofers are under horsepowered and you need a sub or two (or four in my case).
    Those of us that worked with an EQ now know WHICH dead zombie frequencies are bothering us.
    And WE fixed them and it HELPED to know exactly which frequencies we were looking for.
    The EQ will teach you that.
    It will give you "names" for the frequencies that you having issues with because after you tweak to your heart's content you will "see" the offending frequencies on the EQ very clearly.
    But keeping the EQ in your system is only good for people that like hearing dead stuff.
    Unless it is Halloween I suggest you would much prefer to stay in the land of the living.
    This is an oversimplification and if your equipment is terrible then perhaps it is dead anyway no matter what you do so why not at least have the frequency curve improved?
    Listening to beautiful dead sound is better than listening to ugly dead sound.
    But those of us on here that have been around are much more impressed by how much "life" your system has than how "pretty" the frequency curve looks.
    There are two ways to chase the Hifi bug.
    Get a nice frequency curve OR get a lot of "life" out of your sound.
    We "experts" realize how amazing "life" sounds and we go all ga ga over that.
    We like our stereos to sound like fresh air.
    Not stale tobacco smoke.
     
  21. Rocketstail

    Rocketstail Forum Resident

    There were about 4 Rane PE-17s sold on eBay within the last 3 months and they went for cheap. Also I think there are a few PE-15s on there too.
    I still have 2 PE-17s and I think they were about $600 or $800 when I bought them 20 years ago. Five bands of parametric are more than enough to fiddle with. :righton:
     
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  22. rockindownthehighway

    rockindownthehighway Not interested

    Location:
    Gone
    I'm also a fan of parametric eq. I find the graphic ones mostly a gimmic, no offense intended to anybody, just my opinion.

    If eq is about solving specific problems, then a parametric eq is perfect for that. I started using these (digital filters) for ham radio and then I realized they were a good idea for audio. Somewhere I have an old dbx unit. They do have parametric eq in their current lineup, but does not look as useful as the one I had back in the 1980s. I haven't tried the new ones and I don't know if the quality has changed over the years so maybe I'm wrong. They are pretty cheap whereas they use to be premium stuff.

    One example is here dbx 530
     
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  23. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    :confused:
     
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  24. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    There are minimal parameters. Proved in my system for years with excellent results.

    Not less than 10 bands. The “lowest” slider at not higher than “31 Hz”. Range usually “+/-10…12 dB”. THD approx. “0,01...0,02%” with sliders at “0 dB”.
     
  25. Vignus

    Vignus Digital Vinylist

    Location:
    Italy
    Get a Schitt Loki, really worth
     
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