What Can We Do About Brickwalling?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bruce Burgess, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. Volga

    Volga Forum Resident

    Location:
    Amberes
    I can't tell you what to do about brickwalling, but I can tell you what some ebay sellers are able to do thanks to it :winkgrin:
     
    lrpm likes this.
  2. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    If it's dynamic, turn it up. If it is brickwalled, turn it down, reduce the bass a little, and bless you if you aren't one of the folks like me who gets a little ill without those precautions.
    Assuming there isn't a dynamic counterpart.
    There are some newer songs I love (last 10 years, for example) that are brickwalled. I turn it down, reduce the bass, then slowly raise the volume to my preferred level. I make it sound good with what I'm listening on.
     
  3. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Stage a Million Audiophile March.

    That'll learn 'em.
     
  4. Rich-n-Roll

    Rich-n-Roll Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington State
    Same hear I have the varse sarabande version which is much better it's latter albums from Night breaker on...is where he really shines
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  5. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Don't buy it... If enough do it, some might think "Maybe this isn't worth doing"
     
  6. StephenGR12

    StephenGR12 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    I don't read every brickwalling thread, but this detail is new to me. I would think a lot of those releases weren't even put out on vinyl. Of course, no #s to back that it up. And then you'd hear about certain releases sounding way better on vinyl (RHCP, Stadium Arcadium, for example).

    Edit: Oopsie, I misread that part initially. Carry on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  7. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    Stunning difference.
     
    VictoryHighway likes this.
  8. kundryishot

    kundryishot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wales
    They do it to CD so that people can hear over the noise floor it in their cars, and on streaming services for similar reasons

    what they should do , in my opinion, is issue a "home version", and an in-car/out-and-about version
     
  9. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    The mastering and audio restoration work by Patrick W. Engel are overall very good that should be considered best practice by all audio engineers, IMO. I just wish the other engineers are that transparent on how they conduct their own work.
     
    sathvyre, patient_ot and Rich-n-Roll like this.
  10. michaelscrutchin

    michaelscrutchin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX (USA)
    In theory, this is kind of like what Nine Inch Nails did with Hesitation Marks -- they did a mass-release standard version but also an "audiophile mastered" version that was, I believe, only available as a FLAC or WAV download in either 24-bit/48 kHz or 16-bit/44.1 kHz. Unfortunately, the "audiophile" version wasn't much of an improvement -- it was still mostly smashed, only the tiniest bit more dynamic range (average DR 6 vs. DR 5 according to the Dynamic Range DB!).
     
    RJYPSN, andycherry and ARK like this.
  11. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    I know it’s not ideal for anyone preferring lossless files, but I’m slowly working my way through my iTunes library with aacgain - very helpful software.
     
  12. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    It was originally an idea for HDCDs that uses "Peak Extend" functionality. It'd be louder on players without it (i.e., car stereos and portable players) but with home stereo systems with said HDCD capability, it'll incorporate higher dynamic range.
     
    billiam, Severopol and ARK like this.
  13. Rich-n-Roll

    Rich-n-Roll Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington State
    Absolutely
     
  14. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
    For modern music where there isn't a vintage mastering option, I have taken to importing all the songs (from WAV or FLAC) into Audacity and lowering the db's by -4 or -5. Then export the files and burn a CDR. This is tedious but I love the work actually. This also does NOT fix it, it just blunts the excessive volume. It's more of a mind-trick or placebo for me - but I have been satisfied with the results, considering.
     
  15. Jansson

    Jansson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
  16. dobyblue

    dobyblue Forum Resident

    Unfortunately for the absolute vast majority of major label releases, the same nasty master is used.
     
    nosliw likes this.
  17. dobyblue

    dobyblue Forum Resident

    Vinyl is routinely disrespected by the major labels, great we are getting such lovely releases from the audiophile labels of course but they are also giving us lovely digital too.

    Nothing preventing that brickwalled master from being cut to vinyl. See the NIN "definitive" reissues.
     
  18. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Right, but it's cut for vinyl, so the vinyl typically sounds better due to the greater dynamics.

    All you need to do is check out the DR database for the many, many examples where the vinyl version has a better DR rating than the CD.
     
  19. norliss

    norliss Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cardiff, Wales
    I read this quite often but unfortunately it's been proven to be a fallacy. If you take the analogue output of a CD and capture it digitally then analyse those files, you'll see they magically have a much more favourable rating. The DR database rating for vinyl records is pretty meaningless if you're comparing them with the equivalent CD, I'm afraid.
     
    RJYPSN, tagomago, mikmcmee and 7 others like this.
  20. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Not saying you're wrong, but I'll take as an example David Bowie's Blackstar, of which I have both the CD and vinyl. The CD DR is a 5 and the vinyl is a 10. The vinyl also sounds better - bigger soundstage, more detail, less loud, etc.

    Same mastering, though.
     
    GarySteel and stef1205 like this.
  21. dobyblue

    dobyblue Forum Resident

    Cut for vinyl means nothing, MASTERED AND CUT would be a different story.

    I know Ray Janos cut Big Whiskey in 2009 from the CD-DA files, all he did was cut the record as Jensen already did the mastering - needledrop suggests a DR 5dBs greater than the CD it was cut from. Not possible.

    Why you can't measure vinyl with the TT Meter - Production Advice

    Thankfully the site's owner is going to make vinyl toggle ON/OFF at the DR database, which I have been suggesting for years.
     
  22. dobyblue

    dobyblue Forum Resident

    That is your equipment and/or bias creeping in.
     
    RJYPSN likes this.
  23. norliss

    norliss Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cardiff, Wales
    Totally agree with you on that title - Blackstar is definitely better on vinyl. It's just that in general I wouldn't pay too much attention to DR ratings for needledrops. The measurement tool was designed for CD/ digital files and digitized analogue music throws it off for a number of reasons...
     
    Billy Infinity likes this.
  24. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Of course, if I have an unconscious bias I can't opine on it either way (as the nature of it being unconscious would make such a thing impossible), but I can say that I definitely don't have a conscious bias. If I was biased in any direction it would be for CDs, as I have many more of them. My shootouts are honest and objective, and there are a number of times (on the Blue Note threads, for example), I have pointed out that I thought that an existing CD release really good and not worth the "upgrade" to the vinyl.

    There are also some modern releases that I think sound better on CD. There are a few King Gizzard & Lizard Wizard titles that sound terrible on vinyl, compared to the CD. Not sure why, but I find it to be the case.

    I know there are some vinyl-only people in here would would likely not consider CDs to be a comparable substitute under any circumstances, but that's definitely not me.

    Also, pretty much the entire population of people who have heard the blackstar CD vs vinyl feel pretty much the same way; google it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  25. idledreamer

    idledreamer Still idle

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I don't profess to be an audiophile by any means, but one of, if not the worst-sounding CD in my collection right now has to be The Killers - Pressure Machine. Good God is it bad. A close second would be Jay-Z - The Hits Collection Volume One.
     

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