What Can We Do About Brickwalling?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bruce Burgess, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. Bruce Burgess

    Bruce Burgess Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hamilton, Canada
    Fortunately for me, I tend to favor classic rock from the 1960s and 1970s and can get that stuff on vinyl or earlier issues. Nearly all of my Stones CDs/SACDs were mastered by Bob Ludwig and sound great. However, I often encounter this problem, when getting deluxe issues like the Stones releases I first mentioned. I'm glad I only spent a few dollars for the hi res download. My heart goes out for those who spent over a hundred dollars on the CD box set.

    I will try writing directly to the labels. Occasionally, the powers that be do listen to constructive criticism from the public. For instance, Jon Astley's mastering of Who related material has certainly improved. I have certainly nothing to lose.
     
  2. docwebb

    docwebb Forum Resident

    To the modern listener, brickwalling is a feature and not a defect. Very few have dedicated music rooms with high end equipment. They are listening on their phones or mid level (or lower) equipment with (and this is the important part) lots of background noise, either out and about, in their car or at home. Even at home their kids and wife are talking, someone else has a TV on, the neighbor is using a leaf blower, etc. Quiet passages couldn't be heard and loud passages would annoy others or hurt their ears. They are not missing high DR numbers.
    That being said, low DR number do not RUIN the music; they diminish its enjoyment. The old argument we have had on this forum is would you really want to limit your listening of new music to audiophile labels recording jazz artists of varying quality. There is good music to be had...have to make the best of the mastering. As others have said, the artists or labels are not coming to your rescue.
     
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  3. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Sure, if you only want to listen to music made before 1994. I mean you’re not wrong about the Queen albums, I have rips of those EMI’s on my server. But as one can listen to new music without needing a CD or download, it is possible to vote with your wallet and still keep tabs on new releases. It probably won’t do anything, but at least you’ll have fewer coasters cluttering up the house.
     
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  4. Hammer70

    Hammer70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    For me, the battle is lost. Is it as bad as it once was? Probably not. But loudness continues to be a problem, even as we're now often seeing better master sources used and EQ choices being made. Having a strictly digital library, I've resorted to my own futzing. As others have pointed out, maybe it's a placebo effect but I've at least removed the fatigue impact on my 56-year old ears. I created my own plug-in in Sony Sound Forge, which combines declipping and reducing the volume by about 3 db. Just makes everything tolerable (for those releases that need it). It's not a tremendous amount of work, other than having to now retroactively go through my library and fix and replace releases as I come across them (I use JRiver and have a DR column, using the program's analysis).

    The recent Tattoo You release was interesting as I had to do a double-pass to make it tolerable (having both the SACD and the 1994 Virgin CD already ripped, I was only interested in the bonus tracks and the live tracks). It may be all in my head but I feel like I can now rediscover albums that I'd written off as just unbearably loud.
     
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  5. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Laugh madly and hysterically, as any sane person should at the absurdities of life.
     
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  6. Vocalpoint

    Vocalpoint Forum Resident

    See Post 95 in this thread...

    Cheers!

    VP
     
  7. The Elephant Man

    The Elephant Man Forum Resident

    So, today I picketed inside my local Wal-Mart. I stood in front of the Electronics department which is right next to Pet Food and supplies.
    Sadly, only one person asked me about brickwalling and I pointed them in the direction of the masonry department.

    Ps: Friskies is on sale.
     
    mikmcmee and Chris Desjardin like this.
  8. powerq

    powerq Forum Resident

    I realized another problem with loudness today. Playing music in the car, with +/- push buttons, I noticed I have less volume choices for a given sound level. Sometimes it seems like two consecutive notches are too soft, then too loud.
     
  9. Retro Music Man

    Retro Music Man Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yes, this is a problem that I have with my amplifier. Even though it has a volume knob, it seems to be using a rotary encoder instead of a potentiometer, and the sound jumps up and down in "notches".

    In my case, the solution turned out to be quite simple. Yamaha amps have a variable loudness control, which rotates counter-clockwise and is supposed to increase bass at lower listening levels. But it turns out that this control also reduces the overall level. So as long as you don't mind a bit more bass (and many brickwalled CDs don't have much low end anyway), it's perfect.
     
  10. fluffskul

    fluffskul Would rather be at a concert

    Location:
    albany, ny
    Consumers vote every day with their wallets. The best thing we can do is buy the stuff we like, and dont buy the stuff we dont. Ive completely given up on new CDs. Ill purchase hi-rez formats and vinyl (though that too can be brickwalled). But the idea we will get well-mastered CDs is about as realistic as ending pollution or war.
     
  11. mike s in nyc

    mike s in nyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, NY
    I havent read this whole thread, but I'm wondering - a tech question here

    is there a way to 'un-brickwall' a recording? maybe as audio technology gets better there are ways to do that? If they can 'de-mix' a mono thing to separate instruments and all , maybe some one can figure a way to unbrickwall, ie restore more natural dynamics?
     
    Mooserfan likes this.
  12. markp

    markp I am always thinking about Jazz.

    Location:
    Washington State
    I just skip brickwalled albums, even if its from an artist I like. Brickwalling aggravates my tinitus, and there is far too much great music on on-brickwalled cd's and LPs for me to enjoy.
     
  13. Jamsterdammer

    Jamsterdammer The Great CD in the Sky

    Location:
    Málaga, Spain
    The problem is mastering choices. The multitracks should be fine. Just remaster without excessive compression. But trying to fix a brickwalled CD is never going to give great results. You can lower the volume in software like Audacity and use a declipping tool, but if the music on the CD has had a complete haircut, I guess it's futile.
     
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  14. ElevatorSkyMovie

    ElevatorSkyMovie Senior Member

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Nope. There are things that can be done to help a little, but you can't totally undo it.

    In many new releases, the final mix has no dynamics.
    The dynamics are squashed out of each track in Protools before the mix is complete.
    So nothing can ever be done to fix it.
     
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  15. mike s in nyc

    mike s in nyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, NY
    ah well, it was worth asking, I guess. Let's hope this over-compressed brickwalling goes out of fashion soon!
     
  16. Hanglow

    Hanglow Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saratoga New York
    Dude wasn't asking you how loud the new Bieber comp was ...he thought you were hijacking his girlfriend :whistle::biglaugh::cop::wave::righton::help::cheers::goodie::tiphat: :doh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
     
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  17. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    This. It's really all the power we have. We can also write reviews and complain via e-mail or social media or audio forums, but that doesn't appear to have helped at all. What would help is if people didn't buy these garbage products. But that's not happening. Too many people don't notice or don't care or think it sounds fine or even good. Heck, even on here it's now not a rare thing to see posters rationalizing, excusing, defending or even praising slammed masterings. I've even heard some posters describe some of these masterings as "crankable".
     
  18. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
  19. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Not much.
     
  20. Funky54

    Funky54 Coat Hangers do not sound good

    All fine and dandy. But then don’t make a fake vinyl album or introduced a fake Hi-Rez version thats based off the crap version for those little tiny speakers and everybody’s phones. If you want those margins, and you want to charge for the high-end audio experience with the records and Hi-Rez then provide it. It’s criminal, and sheer theft to try and sell that stuff based on those crap masters.
     
  21. JamieLang

    JamieLang Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    there is not….BUT….as i have pointed out elsewhere, the removal of the dynamics isnt generally as bad as it seems when you put a silver disc in a drawer and hit play, because that is ALSO putting out too high a level and will clip your DAC’s analog section AND THEN your receiver’s (or functionally the preamp) input….and remove your ability to granulalry control the volume as your volume pot was designed to….so, digitally downing the signal level before conversion, either manually or via something like Soundcheck or Replaygain goes a LONG way to making it more listenable.

    I know a bunch will come behind me and say that doesnt out the dynamics back (because it doesnt)….and there was certainly a period in the loudness wars where lesser tools were used to MAKE masters loud, resulting in the reduced volume version just sounding “small distorted and weak”…..but, with modern mastering tools, its really pretty subtle once you have the level offset. Look no further than the vinyl pressings that are similar dynamic range—they just get there via more compression rather than more limiting….and that vinyl in the 80s was ALWAYS more compressed than the CDs—and they liked that better….

    anyway….if you digitally offset, sure its inferior to the same thing left closer to mix dynamics….but all the loudness brittle breaking glass tinnitus stuffs goes away or is mostly reduced. Streaming services will do this FOR you….but they dont all use the same calibration level. Thus you might still need a static offset globally.
     
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  22. Hammer70

    Hammer70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    This is reassuring to read, especially given your background. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I created my own custom plug-in in Sony Soundforge that’s a combo declipper-volume reduction, and whether it’s a placebo or actually an improvement, I do find a lot of crunchy releases eminently more listenable to me now. Some of the worst recent offenders - Tattoo You deluxe, Sting’s The Bridge - I had to do two passes to make them more than tolerable. And these were albums that disgusted me with their loudness. Now I get to enjoy discovering them.
     
  23. csnfan

    csnfan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Get off my lawn!
     
  24. Ignatius

    Ignatius Forum Resident

  25. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Wild & Crazy Guy

    Location:
    Plano, TX
    To answer the original question...

    Nothing.

    It is what it is.
     
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