What can we do about Ebay sellers that sell counterfeit CD's

That's the bottom line. As long as this seller pays his ebay fees, ebay loves him to death. It would take a letter from a lawyer representing the record label or artist for ebay to take action. That is the ONLY thing that puts fear in ebay's heart, litigation.

There was/is a similar situation on dimeadozen where unscrupulous sorts were selling dvds of concerts posted there, copyright free. They went through this while thing of trign to notify ebay and threaten the seller, to no avail.

 

I notice quite a few references to China in amongst the fake discs references from members. Must say I have had hundreds of discs from China and never had a fake.

You have to remember that China is the off load country for overstocks and sample discs from Japan.

I have complained about numerous sellers on eBay who have been selling fakes some with high ratings and volume sales. In all occasions eBay have pulled their auctions.

I also don't think you can tar all Russian, Latvian auctions with the fake brush. There are some decent Russian and Latvian sellers out there.

The moto should always be check and double check before buying.

 

I don't quite get your point.

I don't have one fake CD in my collection, but it bothers me others are getting fooled and these fakes are devaluing CD's I own. It also frustrates me having to sort through many fakes to find the real deal. I have no problem with bootlegs myself, just fake stuff that tries to pass itself off as the real deal.

 

You make a fair point. We can't complain about bootleggers, if we buy from bootleggers ourselves.

From an ethical point of view, I think many people would distinguish outtakes, unreleased sessions and live recordings, on the one hand, from a counterfeit *copy* of an official release, on the other hand. The former is okay, but the latter is not.

Then someone points out something that makes the principal hard to apply: like how do you deal with needledrops of Beatles albums sold as MSFL CDs.

Also, IMO self-justifying "What I'm doing is okay" leads to a downward spiral -- we start with with a principal that sounds "reasonable", and soon people are giving "rational" reasons why they are in the ethical right downloading a bootleg copy of a movie off the Internet.

 

Anyone who thinks downloading is terrible, but will purchase a bootleg is kind of hypocritical. At least with illegal downloading the money isn't going in the pockets of dangerous people.

 

This REALLY confuses me. You seem to know enough about the fakes to identify some sellers. What else do you need to know? But it sure sounds funny to me that its (apparently) about the value of what you have and not the legalities of it all. It's completely unfair that you'd attempt to identify sellers unless you have explicit knowledge that something they are selling is illegal. Maybe I'm missing your point though.

What?

 

I am absolutely positive they are fakes. I would bet my life on it I am that sure. If you are ignorant to the fact that they are fakes, please don't tell me I am somehow being morally unjust by naming somebody for selling them.

 

Sorry, but you really are quite clueless. Don't you realize that hardcore criminal mafia types are behind many of these pirated releases?

 

I never said you are morally unjust - never uttered any such thing. I just don't understand your motives. You're implying that those CDs are illegal and yet your motives are not about the legalities. That's confusing to me.

I'm clear as to what those CDs are but I do not know for fact that they are illegal. I choose not to buy them but I'm not out to get that seller and if other people buy them I wish them the best. Plenty of people buy fake stuff fully aware of what it is. My wife buys fake designer purses. So what? Unless you're arguing a moral point (which it seems you're not) then your posts need to be instructive (which they are not because you have apparently not purchased from this seller).

 

Okay, now you're name calling.

Now... how do you know that hardcore mafia types are behind pirate releases? I have first hand information from a close relative who intestigated such things in the 80s and never once heard hardcore mafia mentioned. How do you know hardcore mafia or such characters aren't behind downloads and other bootlegs?

 

Why do you think you are appointed to do something about it? Are you personally hurt? Were your family members personally hurt? Are you representing the music industry or working as a public prosecutor?

 

In the scheme of things, there are countless other issues in the world than for me to expend any energy on the issue of counterfeit CDs. Sorry!

 

The real problem is that the rights owners don't care enough to stop it. An ebay seller is too small. Why should ebay or anyone else protect the rights of some rock group with millions of dollars, living in a mansion on the beach, that is having thier property pirated. Lawyers get paid to do this. They can make buys, and send the seller a cease and desist letter. That's their job. If they are too cheap to pay the lawyers - too bad.

 

What confuses me, is the contempt for illegal downloading on this forum, but this kind of thing is perceived by a few here to be OK. These people are real criminals who are profiting from selling product that isn't theirs. Downloaders may hurt music sales, but they are not lining the pockets of shady criminals.
If anyone here believes that downloading is theft and somehow thinks that supporting these guys financially is a good thing, then I question their sanity.

 

Are you selling these releases on Ebay? I notice a lot of fake stuff coming from Germany. Are you personally offended by me starting this thread?

 

Are you doing anything about those other issues you are so passionate about or do you think that we should all sit on our hands and live in lawlessness? Do you think that supporting organized crime is somehow beneficial to society?

 

Can you prove this?

I mean besides your offensive statement I'm interested in what the fakes are and what constitues "a lot".

 

These counterfeits and bootlegs most definitely hurt collectors, since it reduces the prices on legitimate copies of these titles--as people perceive they are more common than they really are.

 

You are totally overreacting. "Organized crime"

 

I'll admit I overreacted on the post. It was kind of rushed and came across as silly but the Russian mafia is definitely behind many counterfeit releases. It is a huge moneyspin. But keep your eyes closed if you like.

 

Thankyou, this is what I feel also. If you have invested a lot of money in your collection, then these people are in effect stealing not only from the bands and record companies and people they sell to. They are also stealing from collector's who own the real thing. It is on a much smaller scale like the federal reserve deciding to print up a whole heap of dollars and letting them loose into circulation hence ruining the purchasing power of everyone who owns the notes. When there is too much of something there is less demand and when an item is less in demand it is less valuable. It doesn't matter how rare an item is, if people don't want it anymore regardless of the reason, it becomes worthless or of little value.

 

Yes but conversely there will be completists out there who will collect everything they can official or otherwise by an artist.

Wouldn't necessarily agree that they devalue or hurt collectors as true collectors will research about material before purchasing it. Sometimes collecting is not about value but about owning.

Catch 22 for some people.

Re the organized crime unfortunately he is correct in Europe (I have a friend who works in anti-piracy) as it has become such big business that they have taken an active role.

Supposedly they reckon that 1 in every 3 discs sold in the US is a fake and that the current market for pirated cd's is $4.6 billion. So don't be so sure that all the discs in your collection are real.

My friend was at an A&M conference discussing piracy many moons ago where 2 discs by the Police were played and the audience told by the speaker that the only way to tell the difference between the fake and the real disc was a spectral analysis and even then it was difficult and in most cases they couldn't themselves.

 

I googled and found this article. It may be of interest.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20000326/ai_n14501266/

 

I can assure you it does. You just have to keep an eye on Ebay prices.
At one stage for example Pantera's "Power Metal" CD was selling for hundreds on Ebay. Now since it has been heavily pirated by Russians or Chinese, you could pick it up for around $20- $50 because the demand isn't there. The reason may be that some people who own it don't really care if it's real or not, as long as they have a copy. Then there are others who don't even know that it's pirated, they may just assume that it is not that rare anymore because there are so many copies available on Ebay so of course the genuine CD is going to lose value because there are more copies in the marketplace and hence there is less demand.