What did you find more annoying from the old SD NTSC/Pal system?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Kiko1974, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. powerq

    powerq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Whitehall, PA, USA
    Flyback transformer? Isn't that a Jedi Lightsaber Sound Generator?:winkgrin:
     
  2. PNeski@aol.com

    PNeski@aol.com Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    worst thing was bleeding reds !!
     
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  3. seacliffe301

    seacliffe301 Forum Resident

    I never knew that 7.5 blacks was designed to compensate for inadequate monitors. Go figure, I guess you're never too old to learn something that is no longer relevant LOL.

    Regarding Japan's power, I only learned about this a few years ago when I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who designs factories for manufacturing. He mentioned something about 50hz in Japan and I said wait a minute, I knew full well 60hz NTSC in Japan. Turns out when Japan's power grid was being established, they were forced to rely on two different and incompatible generator suppliers. Hence, 2 different power grids.
     
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  4. Kiko1974

    Kiko1974 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yes, and hanging dots when red had white or blue as examples right beside it, this looked dreadful.
     
  5. Kiko1974

    Kiko1974 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I remember now a case where I saw NTSC properly converted to Pal, so well done than it looked like native, for good and bad, Pal: the 1994 US World Cup broadcasts. I know the satellite signal that got to Europe was digital, something very "state of the art" at the time, but I don't know if those digital feed were on their native 525/60 Hz or converted to prior to satellite uplink to 625/50 hz,but they looked great.
     
  6. Which I understand completely. That is just something I remember from childhood, so it tugs at my memories a bit. :D

    I'd wonder what the hell is wrong if I saw it today.
     
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  7. Kiko1974

    Kiko1974 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    You know I'm not a pro Mark but I have a hard question for you that may prove you wrong, I'll explain: back in the analog days a VHS tape from continental Europe was 625, 25 fps and 50 Hz, a VHS tape from France was 625, 25 fps and 50 Hz and both of them had the chroma subcarrier at 4.48 Mghz. If you played a French VHS video tape on a continental Europe VHS deck in was displayed in black and white and the same if you played a continental Europe VHS tape on a French VHS deck. My answer is because the French VHS tape has its color encoded on SECAM system and the continental Europe has its color encoded on Pal System. Just my 0.002 $.
     
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    The color subcarrier was in the same place:

    [​IMG]
    Still 4.43 MHz. As far as I know, only SECAM TV broadcasts came up in B&W on PAL sets. The French also had to abandon the previous 819-line B&W standard.

    SECAM - Wikipedia

    We can get rid of that in digital. Comb filter artifacts aren't an issue today, particularly with modern LCD/OLED sets. But that was a huge problem with analog PAL and NTSC.
     
  9. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Yeah, you still need a good technician monitoring the picture. Some months ago, I got a couple of bids on converting a 29.97-frame job to 24-frame for theatrical release, and the technicians told me they often have to "futz" with the picture within the shot just to get acceptable results. Ultimately, the cost estimate went so high, the producers scuttled the deal and they wound up not going a theatrical route. But the Alchemist processor can do miracles (no pun intended).
     
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  10. Kiko1974

    Kiko1974 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    My Pioneer multi system Laser Disc player from 1995 stated having a "Digital Comb Filter" for better color separation. Now you are wondering, how's that possible? All European Laser Disc players had an 21 pin Euro Scart connector and the ones with a "Digital Comb Filter" had the option of RGB video output so one could bypass the TV's comb filter if it performed worse than the one built in on the Laser Disc Player which was the case on my set up of a Pioneer LD player and a 25" Sony Trinitron TV set.
     
  11. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    No, I don't wonder how that's possible, because I interviewed Ken Kai (then-president of Pioneer of America) and his head engineers at his office for a cover story on Laserdisc and a sidebar on comb filters for Video Review in the late 1980s when I was technical editor for the magazine for 20 years. Laserdiscs were an analog composite format, so they would need Y/C processing in order to separate the luminance and chrominance signals to compatible monitors with Y/C inputs. This is one of many reasons why Laserdisc had more flaws than you might think... mainly because most of the format was designed in 1974-1975, when the patents were issued. Component video and digital video weren't even working in the lab back then.
     
  12. seacliffe301

    seacliffe301 Forum Resident

    No kidding, then I would have read much of your work. I had a subscription for most if not all of the 80's. Great mag.
     
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  13. Kiko1974

    Kiko1974 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I didn't remembered that US TV sets had Y/C video inputs (it was also called S-Video in Europe, mostly because Super-VHS), we had those too, if my mind serves me well they were mini-DIN connectors with 4 pins. But in Europe Y/C video could also be done via 21 pin scart. As a rule when a TV set had more than one scart connector, scart 1 had composite and Y/C video connected and scart 2 had composite and RGB connected. European Laser Disc players with digital comb filters had both Y/C ouputs via 4-pin mini-DIN connectors or Scart, top of the range Laser Disc players like the one I own also had RGB video output and used a kind of Digital Comb Filter that was called something like "Advanced Digital Comb Filter", I guess it was because it did full color decoding. On my Sony TV set RGB full decoding looked a bit better and cleaner (less noisy, something that was an issue with Laser Disc) than Y/C. It was a dreadful and bulky format that at least in Europe never caught on.
     
  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
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    My partner and I wrote for just about every electronics language in America, including Home Video, Video, Video Review, Home Theater, Widescreen Review, High Fidelity, plus the small-circulation Perfect Vision and Videofax. Kept us busy.
     
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  15. seacliffe301

    seacliffe301 Forum Resident

    Ahh, nice. Video, Video Review & High Fidelity were the consumer mags I had subscriptions for throughout the 80's. I must have read a lot of your work.
    Did you ever write for "Broadcast Engineering"? I had a subscription with that from the late 80's well into the 2000's until they went paperless.
     
  16. JQW

    JQW Forum Resident


    Arrggghhh! Multiple SCART sockets. Indeed with multiple SCART inputs, some would be RGB/Composite and the others S-Video/Composite, but virtually no consumer devices actually output S-Video. Hence at least one device plugged into your TV set had to be connected as a composite device, unless you were lucky enough to have something with SCART passt-through. The other option would be to purchase a manual SCART switcher, but these tended to only switch the composite signal over.
     
  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    No, but I certainly read that and the various other Broadcast mags that used to be published. The legendary one for audio was Recording Engineer/Producer (aka REP), and I really liked that one -- it was a sad day when they folded. About the only non-consumer mag I wrote for was Video Business, only because the same guy also owned Video Review.
     
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  18. Kiko1974

    Kiko1974 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Didn't you hate those scart connectors? I did, they fell out of its socket so easy.
     

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