What do you think of the Harman Kardon Citation II?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by audio, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. audio

    audio New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    guyana
    Have you heard these? How does it compare with a Marantz 8b? Same tight bass or tubby like the McIntosh? How is it otherwise??
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Never heard it.

    Give me a Mac any day over all of this stuff (other than a Marantz 8B).

    I recommend a McIntosh 240, a pair of MC-30's or a Marantz 8B. Save your nickles.
     
  3. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    I've heard this amp, at least I think the one you're referring to. The H/K Citation came in 2 or 5ch, right? I owned the Signature 2.0 and demo'd this amp with it. Didn't suit my tastes. Very solid-state sounding.

    Your idea of this model and mine may not match up though. Please clarify if possible.
     
  4. Ronflugelguy

    Ronflugelguy Resident Trumpet Geek

    Location:
    Modesto,Ca
    Isn't that one use KT88's? Probably not the midrange magic of the 6LC MacIntosh's.
     
  5. audio

    audio New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    guyana
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Oh, that. The II. Didn't recognize it with the number 2.

    I used to have a mint one, back when I believed (was told) that the KT-88 was the God of output tubes. I learned differently later.

    Problem is, most of them were kits, so goof-balls like us assembled most of them back in the 1960's. Sloppy soldering, etc.

    I hated mine on first listen. It was so darn mint though so I hung in there. Never liked the sound of it compared to my Mac stuff, but some people love them. I ended up selling mine.
     
  7. Clay

    Clay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saratoga, CA
    This guy loves the Cit II Amp and has quite a nice write up about it and some modifications for it at this site. scroll down past the Dynaco mods
    http://www.quadesl.com/schematics.shtml
    There are some guys that do some updates to these and love them.
    I am still saving up for a Mac so I can compare it to the Dynaco ST70.
    I also think the new Mac tube amp pre amp would be a pretty nice set up if I had an extra $10k :)
     
  8. audio

    audio New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    guyana
    Yes, sorry about that. That was my error. I think there is a completely different modern piece called the Citation "2".

    What is the God of output tubes? Forgive me if this has been covered before and I am asking a redundant question here.

    It's not just the kits, Steve. You should see the inside of my A500. It's factory wired, but in the last 41 years it's been mangled by more than a fair share of goof-ball wanna-be techs. It even had 1 6V6 in it when I got it instead of the 7355 that it was supposed to have.

    My problem with Mac tube stuff is that there are certain sonic qualities that I've heard that aren't right for everything I listen to. Basically, I guess I could describe the sound as being like having a dream where you are trying to run, but you can't move fast enough, as though you have lead boots on or something. Mind you, the sound is DEFINITELY dreamy, just the wrong kind of dream for me to want to have night after night.
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    You need a modern tube amp then. VAC or Cary or WAVAC or something like that.

    The God of output tubes is the 6L6GC. As used in McIntosh 240's and MC-30 monoblocks. Also used in all your favorite vintage and modern Fender guitar amps.
     
  10. audio

    audio New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    guyana
    Perhaps. Either that or I need to re-adjust my ears. I've been force fed a lot of audiophile crap over the last several years. One of the things that I'm most thankful for with regard to your advice on this forum, Steve, is that you have taught me not only what to listen for and what's really important, but also how to get more enjoyment out of my music. In other words, I'd much rather have a "slow and tubby" Mac than my Arcam Alpha 9 right now for obvious reasons. I'm sure you know how old prix is by now, though.......always searching for the PERFECT setup that doesn't exist for the money prix can afford to spend. Besides that, modern gear is boring.

    Heck, I wonder what a couple of Twin Reverbs with the tone circuits bypassed would sound like as mono blocks??
     
  11. bassface

    bassface Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Someprefer the HKII to Mac or Marantz gear. I love my HK II. Great bass,for one thing.

    Here's a link to the guru of these amps:

    pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/

    I haven't heard much mac tube stuff, but most of the other boards I hang out at seem to generally diss them as colored and slow.
    (I know that's not the prevailing sentiment here).

    The HKII is a great value, good power, and apparently sounds even better in triode.
     
  12. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas

    Whoops! Yes, the SS model is the one I've listend to. Don't know about the tube version.

    Sam, signing off.....
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Senior Member

    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I heard a push pull 2A3 amp a few months ago that slayed every push pull pentode amp I've ever heard, IMO. I'm still waiting for Sckott to comment on his PP 6B4G amp. Is it done yet? :)

    I've been following the thread in the music forum about what hardware Steve uses for casual listening. You never use your VAC amps for that Steve?

    All you can do is listen to as much different equipment as you can thats available around you and and at the end of the day decide for yourself what you enjoy and how much of a hit your pocketbook can sustain.

    I find it really tough to believe that there isn't a local audiophile group that you can't hook up with to help you demo vintage equipment. I suggest that you go over to the "vintage gear" forum at audioasylum or even the Bottlehead forum (even if your not really interested in SET amps) and ask if anyone has gear (vintage or SET) in your area. They're a pretty friendly bunch in the Bottlehead forum.

    If it sounds good to you then it is good.
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Don't put words in my mouth, bucko! :) I didn't say "casual" listening, I said FUN listening!
     
  15. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Prix....

    Two stereos.

    Tubes with wonderful midrange.

    Solid state to rock your socks off.

    :agree:
     
  16. Drew

    Drew Senior Member

    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I never differenciated the two. I thought Casual listening = Fun listening. As opposed to critical listening.

    I guess I understand now. Is there an emoticon with a lightbulb going on next to a guys head?
     
  17. indy mike

    indy mike Forum Pest

    Do we need to start a "Steve's Hierachy of Listening Needs" thread, kinda like old Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs???? :D

    So Steve, what does the 6l6GC do differently than a KT-88/6550, or that other audiophile fave the EL-34/6CA7????
     
  18. sgraham

    sgraham New Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    I have a Citation-II that took a dive a couple of years ago and I haven't had the energy to fix it. But I liked it while it lasted. It did not have the flabby sound I associate with some tube amps. Perhaps it also did not have some of the "magic" they had in the midrange either. It was the same amp I had used to monitor live recordings in Hill Auditorium before it got replaced by a Crown 75 watt amp, and believe me, I heard the difference instantly, as in "where'd the stereo image go?".
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Where you been?

    6L6GC= DOUBLE THE MIDRANGE MAGIC.

    Since the heart of the music is in the midrange, the power tube that gives the best mids to me is the winner. Other tubes give more of this or that, but for me, I'll take the GE.

    This is for old style vintage amps now. The 300B and other SET designed amps are a whole different ball of cheese.
     
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