What Does "Black Peter" (Hunter/Garcia) Mean To You?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RayS, Mar 17, 2019.

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  1. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Senior Member

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    "Black Peter" is a beautiful song in every respect, and it's subject matter is universal. It makes me feel more comfortable about my eventual demise. When I'm gone I hope I can be a continuation of the grateful dead folk tale character and help out the living who cross paths with me.
     
  2. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    Hunter's own comment on Black Peter:

    "I wrote this as a brisk piece like Kershaw's 'Louisiana Man.' Garcia took it seriously, though, dressing it up in subtle changes and a mournful tempo. The bridge verse - "See here how everything lead up to this day..." --was written after the restructuring of the piece and reflects the additional depth of possibility provided for the song by his treatment"
     
  3. While my interpretation is that it depicts the “state” of being between life and death - it’s is wide open to each listener to determine what it means for them.

    In fact mood or circumstance - may lead to several different interpretations for each person.

    Perhaps someone with Dutch culteral knowledge can illuminate on the “Black Peter” in that culture and any relation or interpretation threads to the Dead’s song?

    A brief snapshot of such references to purported Black Peter historic references follows:

    EDIT:
    Apparently, after more google searches, it is revealed that this tradition has been pulled into recent racial and political debate, so I emphasize that was not my intent to search for a Black Peter origin.

    The part that I feel may be relevant to the song lyrics is the judgement elements of Black Peter and St Nicholas.

    .
    “Before elves and eight tiny reindeer, St. Nicholas had a much more menacing assistant. Named Black Peter, this companion was the physical opposite of St. Nicholas. Tall and gaunt with a dark beard and hair, Black Peter was associated with the punitive side of Christmas. Traditionally St. Nicholas would hand out presents to good children, while it fell to Black Peter to dole out coal (and sometimes knocks on the head) to children who misbehaved.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  4. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    I'll take a stab that when Hunter was "reliving assassinations", he thought of Peter the Great, who seems to have experienced a rather miserable death due to uremia and gangrene.

    Here's a portrait of Pete on his deathbed.

    [​IMG]

    Must be a joy to be painted while you're dying.
     
  5. dgwint

    dgwint Forum Resident

    Hunter wrote the words & melody to Friend Of The Devil.
     
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  6. heathen

    heathen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
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  7. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    There is one song I think that Hunter wrote both words and music to, but I can't remember which one...
    Ship of Fools, Must have been the Roses?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  8. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Must Have Been the Roses. I think that is the only song the GD regularly played where Hunter has sole writing credit.
     
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  9. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    The doses, or the ribbons, in her long brown hair...
     
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  10. Rne

    Rne weltschmerz

    Location:
    Malaver
    "It Must Have Been The Roses", like Patrick has just pointed out, and also "Easy Wind".
     
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  11. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Yes, sole credit to Hunter on "Easy Wind" too.
     
  12. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    Soon after I first joined SHF I posted Black Peter in a 'most self-pitying songs' thread.

    I stand by that, to me the narrator is taking a stoic attitude regarding death and a resignation to his fate at first, though there's already tension:

    e.g. the contrast of 'I was laying in my bed and dying' with 'weather down here so fine.' Then the wind squalls through the door as if in refutation of that sentiment, but the narrator just wants a little peace to die (which the wind, seemingly arguing against Annie on his behalf, is denying him at the moment.)

    But the next verse, 'fever roll up...' supports the notion of 'ebb and flow, sunrise sunset, life and death etc.'

    For me the bridge verse is where the turn starts - he's realizing his life is building up to this day, no different than any other day, the emptiness of all the days etc. Then the last verse takes the more pathetic turn. Are 'people' the same people as friends? Friends is specific, people general, but it moves directly from 'friends' who 'come around' to 'people' who know how poor he is but don't care, yet 'run and see.' I read that as the narrators own bitter commentary on his friends.

    But like most GD songs, it is left intentionally ambiguous.

    Though Operator is credited to Pigpen, I seem to remember Hunter revealed that one was all him and he gave it to Pigpen to sing on AB.
     
  13. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Senior Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Robert Hunter has said he considers "Friend of The Devil" to be the only "near perfect" Garcia/Hunter song. I'd say that "Black Peter" is also "near perfect", if not actually perfect, as are a ton of other Garcia/Hunter tunes.
     
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  14. Trainspotting

    Trainspotting Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Good song, as indeed, all the songs from Workingman's are. And I do prefer the studio version to the slower, live take on both Bear's Choice and What a Long Strange Trip... I wonder what Pigpen would've sounded like singing this.
     
  15. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    So many questions, but the one that caught my eye was about Dostoevsky. I enjoy seeing parallels in two works of art, or using one as a window into another. So here are some random Dostoevsky-Black Peter thoughts.

    Dostoevsky loved to use fever dreams/hallucinations in his novels. Roskolnikov spends much of his time after committing double murder in "Crime and Punishment" in a fevered state, due in part to not taking care of himself and living in relative squalor, and, one assumes, because of the guilt he was convinced that he would never experience.

    If one goes with the theory that we have an unreliable, self-pitying narrator in "Black Peter", I can certainly see ties to the Underground Man. His "friends" that would come to gather for his death (or his hypochondrical drama, more likely) would not be friends at all, but his angry servant and his old school friends who would prefer to avoid him. UM would call them out for not caring.

    Lastly, the Brothers Karamavoz. Dmitri would tell us that Peter's death is an indicator that we must "gather ye rosebuds". Seize the day while we can - make merry, live it up. Ivan would tell us that Peter's (one assumes early) demise among false friends is an indicator that while God oversees the Universe, He doesn't intervene in it (at least not positively). And Alyosha would remind us of the eternal life Peter is entering, and how his brief suffering is nothing in comparison to the reward waiting.
     
  16. footlooseman

    footlooseman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Joyzee
    Black Death
     
  17. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    What a Long Strange Trip (the double LP compilation from the late 70's) had the studio version as I recall. Interesting that it is one of the only Workingman's songs where Pig appears, other than "Easy Wind."
     
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  18. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    Easy Wind I didn't know. Cool. Not the first song I would think of.
    I'm not that surprised if Hunter wrote the music to Operator as ianuaditis suggested
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  19. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    Garcia was a good editor of Hunter's words from what I understand. Phil Lesh likes to sing FOTD with that extra verse at the end but it's much better without it
     
  20. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Bob Weir has been singing the "lost verse" for at least the last couple of years. A nice novelty at first, but yes, it doesn't add much to the song, IMO.
     
  21. Trainspotting

    Trainspotting Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The LP had the studio cut, the CD has the live one.
     
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  22. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    You can borrow from the Devil,
    You can borrow from a friend,
    The Devil's got a twenty dollar bill,
    Your friend he's only got ten...


    This verse strikes me as an interesting juxtaposition for the Devil and one's Friends.
     
  23. owlshead

    owlshead Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philly burbs
    exactly!
     
  24. LandHorses

    LandHorses I contain multitudes

    Location:
    New Joisey
    I can't add to what's already been discussed except to bring up what I said about "Black Peter" when I ran Workingman's Dead in the Weakest Link game.

    My personal favorite version (maybe it's just that I was at this show) is 12/28/86 at the Kaiser Auditorium. They played it 2 weeks earlier at the comeback shows somewhat more tentative.......but then this was THE ONE they had to do after Jerry survived his coma. He nails the lyrics, the "see here how everything" bridge was perfectly harmonized, and......it was just great. The crowd loved it..........one of those transcendent Grateful Dead moments for me anyway.

    "Black Peter" starts at 1:12, but the whole 2nd set is great (if you like 80's Grateful Dead).
     
  25. Interesting, that if we listen to the song that directly follows Black Peter on Workingman’s Dead - Easy Wind - we learn the subject may have gotten a health reprieve of possibly 5 more years of life, is still drinking - despite doctors’ warning.

    His current lady may be hiding his booze - and he’s probably looking for another to replace her. So he’s taking this gift of nature that the Easy Wind brings and indicates he’s on the right path because he hears and follows the rivers’ word and laments that others can’t hear what he does.

    Question? Is this an unplanned coincidence that these songs are back to back?
    Intentional to deepen the story/meaning?
    Or a natural consequence of the collective unconscious playing out what was going on amongst them?
    If I remember correctly, the whole album was recorded in just a few days?!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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