95% end game? Damn, close the thread, it's going to be tough finding something that would close that small 5% gap! Seriously, if Harbeth is not on the radar (like the 40.2), I'm just curious what you've heard or auditioned from anything Joseph Audio or Sonus? Of all the speakers I've heard in others systems, a short audition of well driven Pulsars was pretty memorable for me. But I'd think you'd then be forced to pair them with a sub, something I'm guessing might not be desirable? (just recalling your recent thread on your system sans sub... ) Are you looking for something with enough low end to make pairing a sub optional? How important is that in this choice? Have you listened to any larger JA offerings? Sonus?
Another thing. Is the OP willing to purchase new amplification to optimally drive the speakers chosen whatever they may be or, “fit” the speakers into his present amplification chain.
I don't think that most expensive speakers attempt to boost bass? Speed and agility are connected with efficiency. As sensitivity goes down, so does quickness and agility.
Probably right. I heard the AN E speakers at AXPONA and loved them, they may be the ones but I am worried about some kind of a downgrade. I love JA but they do not have the sensitivity which is a deal breaker. I want that fast sound that my former Spendors had. The SFs I have heard have excellent bass but did not have an equally excellent midrange. The OP is not willing to part with current amplifer
I so agree on this. One of the prime attributes I’d never want to compromise. I’ve found other ways to compensate for any inherent deficiencies created.
I found this out for myself in the mid 90's when I purchased a pair of Klipsch KG 5.5's. Basically a nice two way design with a horn. But, whether you call it lower mid range or upper bass, something became lost in the translation due to the powerful and present bass, it just kind of got "sucked out". A quarter of a century later, I came across a discussion on AK with reference to the KG 5.5's. "The 5.5 seem to lose their way when getting to crank volume and you want to really rock. The balance seems to get sloppy and lows get boomy. Mids fall far to the back and the highs get too shrilly." "However, they really do mid to low volume on tube very well. This is what attracts me to them. I do a lot of home background listening while working. They are so relaxed and smooth filling this role for me." "There are only one other pair of speakers that I have that do this. Mind you, they do this much much better but they are Altec... so, there is that. Much more money invested there of course." While these were good speakers, I could never get past the point that this attribute didn't work for me. Everyone else thought they had great bass! People don't seem to be able to grasp this all important fact! Large horns it is, very large horns! This is the genius of the engineer's at Altec. The Altec A7 Voice of the Theater speakers use the Altec 828 bass cabinet. The 828 cabinets are a modified horn design. A horn this large, will only couple the air down to around 130-Hz. At that point, the bass reflex part of the cabinet kicks in and takes the bass down to its -3 dB. point of around 47-Hz. This gives them effortless horn quality bass, yet maintains high sensitivity of over 100-dB. People are always complaining, even those on the Altec forums, that the A7's are bass shy. They are not, those who make these comments have no understanding or appreciation why Altec designed them this way. Altec A7’s have the best midrange than any speaker I have heard. It is natural and balanced. But, when you mess with the bass component, you destroy the midrange balance in the process!
I’ve applied both parametric equalization and tailoring the driving amplification to address problems in this area. Properly matching amplification wins hands down in my case.
Yes a very important component in being able to respond to the post. For this reason, knowing @avanti1960 well enough from his post, he knows that also. The fact that he left that out, and how long it took him to finally speak up leads me to believe he is not serious and only wanted to get people going in terms of just seeing what kind of responses he would receive. Last I read, I believe he was pretty happy with his system. It was interesting the realization that occurred when he turned off the subwoofers, although I am sure they have been turned back on and off a number of times. Is he the kind of guy who will finally find his holly grail, I don't think so, but for now he has a terrific system that seems beautifully set up in a beautiful room. I cannot believe he is serious in terms of selling his fairly new Harbeth speakers to purchase another pair of speakers. If he stays within the same price range as his current it will only be a sideways move. This is why knowing his price is critical. Going sideways will only better one aspect to find another needing some sort of improvement. He needs to drop the coin on the table and take a really big investment leap to get what he is currently dreaming about. At least that is what I am believing now from his responses.
Equalization, like with tone controls or better yet a parametric equalizer though certainly not evil, will, to some extent, overcome some inherent design deficiencies or room acoustic interactions. Walking on crutches is certainly preferable to not walking at all. Walking unaided without crutches would be the the optimal solution. Doing "unnatural" things to correct deficiencies is never the best way to achieve your ultimate goals. Some swear by digital signal processing, I swear at it! Having balanced components is the best way. I use no EQ or signal processing. Everything is completely as natural and analog (passed the systems DAC), as it can possibly be. I can't think of anything more critical than well engineered speakers and amplification that matches the speakers.
Mine was a room response correction scenario a fair while back. Tascam, not digital. Great for the problem at the time but didn’t have anywhere close to the amplification I’m running now.
I would attribute the quickness and agility of your D7s to the cabinet enclosure style. Much more inert than a BBC speaker such as the harbeth. So the quickness and agility you hear is more of a result in less cabinet resonance and less flex on the baffle which would make the harbeths sound fuller and a bit slower and the D7s quicker and more agile. Of course you also get the sound of ‘ thinness ‘ from the D7 but I think that is just how they have constructed that cabinet and tuned it. there are other factors that contribute to this such as drivers of course. but that is why I recommended something with good applied science and technology for the cabinet. Q Acoustics has this. B&W on their 800 series has this and many others which I can’t remember now to mention. As Helom mentioned I think a better braced and inert cabinet from a brand of the BBC lineage might work. Graham, Spendor and the others he mentioned. Or go for a more inert non BBC design that isn’t lean. my two bucks
This is a great post and I totally agree. Why I was going to start a thread on, Maybe having two sets of speakers is the way to go. Will kinda solve the issue of getting used to one sound and being able to switch to a slightly different sound. Plus no speaker is perfect and there are always compromises. great post
Proac definitely should be on your auditioning list. why I liked mine whilst auditioning speakers is that they had that lush midrange but were also a bit more taught and agile than a classic BBC. the Spendor A range might be more what you are looking for. The Ds sound more lean than the A range. Also the Proac D range has a lush midrange but is faster than a classic BBC design. I haven’t heard the Proac K range. Those are supposedly cleaner and faster. Wonder if they retain the lush mids as well.
If you want have your cake and eat it too try the new KMD Orchestalls Reference Loudspeakers at $32K or the smaller KMD Orchestalls at $8K . Some say these speakers were the best sounding at the Axpona 2022 hands down ! And they were only using very cheap cables and gear with a very cheap Yamaha CD Player !..
A few of my friends went to this show and they all thought these KMD speakers were the best of show and they heard others in that room raving about them too saying they were the best they heard at Axpona 2022
Well I guess that settles it then. Lol a quick look at all your 6 or 7 posts show your ……..’ bias’ thanks for the input
Yamaha NS5000s are the most natural and real sounding speakers I have heard.They may not be quite 89db sensitivity but are an easy load.
