What if Phil Spector didn't pull the trigger?

When I first heard the news, I didn't want to believe Phil did it because I am a fan of his work. However, after reading what has been happening, it sounds like a foregone conclusion he is innocent. What is wrong with the LAPD?

 

Here is what Steve wrote in his first post:

"What if the chief of police made a statement to the waiting press that Phil did it"

I don't feel like looking up the libel or slander laws (I forget which one is which) but calling someone a murderer without any back up doesn't sound too good to me.

Let me also add that if this if what the chief did and Phil is cleared, then the chief should be fired and sued until he is penniless. There's some justice for ya.

I think my anti-authoritiarian bias is kicking in.

 

No offense, Steve, but this appears to be little more than a spin story. Let's analyze this objectively:

What if on the way home from the House Of Blues, the girl took the bottle of Tequila that she brought with her and drank the entire bottle in the limo, getting ****-faced drunk?

GM: And neither Phil nor the chauffeur did anything to stop her? Good luck with that defense!

What if she wasn't the "angel" the press has made her ("poor struggling actress taken advantage of by unscrupulous record producer")?

GM: That excuse won't fly even with a Hollywood jury. Fallen "angels" do not deserve to be murdered.

What if she started drunkenly bitching about this and that until, after they got to Spector's place, Phil was so fed up with her that he ordered his chauffeur to take her immediately home?

GM: You mean neither he, the chauffeur, nor the two of them together could get her into the car? Good luck with that defense, too!

What if she said "No" and went in the second entrance foyer and sat down and refused to budge?

GM: So she threw a tantrum and, therefore, deserved to die? Responsible adults handle the situation - these things only take a little time. (Remember your college days?)

What if she opened a drawer and found one of Phil's guns there? (He had one in each of the entry ways to his house in case of robbers or something).

GM: Then Phil stays in jail. It's his gun and he's responsible.

What if she grabbed the gun and put the barrel in her mouth and imitated an obscene gesture while Phil stood there looking aghast at her?

GM: Phil Spector, a world-wise adult, was aghast at simulated fellatio - a very common sex act??? In Hollywood??????? From a woman he picked up probably hoping she would do it to him?????????? Shapiro came up with this???????????????

What if the gun went off in her mouth but the bullet was so friggin' old that it didn't even come out the other side?

GM: The age of the bullet and effectiveness of the charge are completely irrelevant regarding who was responsible for her death.

What if the Alhambra police showed up and didn't believe a word Phil told them after the chauffeur who was not in the room called them and told them that Phil did it?

GM: Then the officers will testify exactly why they didn't believe him. They'll start with his demeanor at the time.

What if Phil only said to him "Call 911" but he called the police instead?

GM: Uh, 9-1-1 IS the police.

What if the chief of police made a statement to the waiting press that Phil did it and they arrested him because it was well known that he loved guns?

GM: Irrelevant. The only words that count are those on the police report. If the chief's explanation was different, that's another matter and is completely separate from whether Spector killed her.

What if the local coroner STILL has not finished his findings on the body even though it has been many months?

GM: Exactly which findings are not complete? Perhaps the coroner is being extra careful to examine the particulate matter in her mouth from the bullet, or that the fingerprint(s) is not as clear as he had hoped? The alternative, of course, is to not spend enough time and, as a result, compromise the findings and the case. Can't have it both ways, ya know.

What if Phil had no tracings on his hands of having ever fired a gun that night?

GM: Guns don't always leave nitrates on the firer's hands. Think about it. What manufacturer is going to build a weapon that allows hot gases to fall back on the holder's hands? Besides, the gases go out the end of the barrel along with the bullet, so cops can and do find that the test is often inaccurate.

What if the police are dragging their feet because they are trying to figure out a way to nail him for this, even though it was really an "accidental suicide"?

GM: The LAPD have a vendetta against Spector, or hero worship of Lana Clarkson? Puh-LEEEEEZE. Perhaps they have learned something from the OJ case and are being extra careful to be precise.

What if the police are constantly interrogating Phil's friends and associates past and present, looking for something, anything to nail the guy with?

GM: That's normally called a thorough investigation (except to the paranoids and anti-government types who see all of such questioning as harassment.)

What if Phil Spector's (and lawyer Robert Shapiro's) friends are so mad about this that they finally spilled the beans about this weird case?

GM: Or, what if they were so desperate after reviewing the overwhelming evidence of his guilt they decided to spin a new story using Phil's friends to see if anyone falls for it?

GM

 

What do you mean? The police do this all the time - it's their job. They arrest people they suspect of committing crimes. The defendant hires a lawyer to represent them in court. A jury finds them guilty or innocent. What's a cop gonna do - arrest someone but tell the press that maybe he did or maybe he didn't do it? That they're really not sure. Should the Police Chief have been fired after O.J. was acquitted?

 

I do.

What is Libel?

Libel and slander are legal claims for false statements of fact about a person that are printed, broadcast, spoken or otherwise communicated to others. Libel generally refers to statements or visual depictions in written or other permanent form, while slander refers to verbal statements and gestures. The term defamation is often used to encompass both libel and slander


mud-

 

Okay, before anyone jumps on me - yes, that's a bad example!

 

That's what I was thinking myself. But, the cop should say, "We will release information when we know more." I mean, they haven't even charged the guy yet. So yes, I think the chief made a big mistake which may come back to make him look like a fool. Is what he did legally actionable? Phil might be able to answer that question for you soon.

 

There you go! Lots of info on the interweb.

 

I working on becoming a legal assistant.

mud-

 

So as I think about this a little more. Can the chief of police hold a press conference and call you a murderer today? I don't think so. Can he do the same for someone who has been charged? Probably. But Phil seems to fall in that area in between. So, I don't know if he can be sued for what he did, but I'll bet it is against police standard operating procedure. I sure don't think it's right to call someone a murderer when they have not been charged with a crime yet. What do you think?

 

Steve, it sounds to me like your scenario came directly (or maybe through friends) from Phil Spector himself. I hope it's true. I hope he's innocent and is eventually cleared.

 

Ferric Man called it on 2-08-2003. Defense option #2 .

I rest my case.


http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=174280#post174280

 

Mike, I can't really disagree with much of this. Of course if someone is charged with a crime than it's the duty of the police chief to say that he did it. Theoretically at least, he wouldn't be arrested and charged if the cops and the D.A. didn't think him guilty. The fact that Phil wasn't actually charged (but he was arrested if i remember correctly) does cloud the issue and i can't recall if the Chief made this statement before, during, or after Phil was "arrested."

It's one of those weird things: if you say he did it and he's proven guilty then you did the right thing. If you say he did it and he gets off, then either he got lucky in court or he was innocent to start with and the cops were wrong. Either way, i'm pretty sure the police are protected from "defamation" suits in such cases.

 

I just reread Steve's initial post and things are starting to become clearer. And today is Tuesday after all... did Steve have his usual breakfast with the boys?

 

Anytime there is alcohol involved...The case is NEVER clear unless there is a confession...A tough one alright. Anythings possible...

 

The apparent Spector version of the shooting appears in an email spinning around LA the last several days or weeks. And there was this interesting denial two months ago:

Police Refute Suicide Report In Spector Case
An investigator at the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department is refuting a radio report claiming that law-enforcement officials believe actress Lana Clarkson shot herself at producer Phil Spector's home Feb. 3. Citing an unnamed source at the Sheriff's Department, a report on L.A. news station KFI yesterday (March 10) stated that Clarkson's death was being treated as an "accidental suicide."
Billboard, Published: March 11, 2003

GM

 

I haven't herad a thing about this case since this happened...

 

(Cue one note L&O show opening effect)

 

until they bring Ronnie Spector into court.

Can you imagine what she has to say?

 

That'll be tough. From what I remember, it was only recently that a court case regarding royalties owed from movies and commercials was settled. Ronnie didn't get what she DESERVED, but from what I've seen, she tells it like it is.

I'm afraid this is all about personality profile. Everyone who's worked with Phil knew he loved carrying a gun and occasionally aimed it at people. The remaining Ramones have said that countless times.

But did Phil do it? It's got to be overwhelming evidence to prove him guilty, and I hope the jury sees this.

 

I'm surprised to see Steve's very insistent post about a clearly non-music issue. When I posted a quote from Leonard Cohen about the time Phil pulled a gun on him, my post was almost immediately deleted. Too many "what ifs" for me.
JD

 

Take a look at the internet address in the window at the top of your browser. That's the guy who is paying for the bandwith.

Remember that Phil has not even been charged. So this may not even get to a jury.