What if the Beach Boys had played Monterey?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RayistaGeoff, Aug 14, 2005.

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  1. davenav

    davenav High Plains Grifter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY USA
    Hawaii is after Monteray.

    The fake live album recreates the sound of those shows.

    I guess we'll have to just disagree about the quality. But, I think they would have put it out if they thought it was good.
     
  2. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Actually, at one point, they considered shortening the name to Beach. Honest.
     
  3. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    They also could have sampled the stereo chicken cluck transition and folded to mono, as we know how difficult that transition can be to reproduce on tape.
     
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  4. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    My apologies. I didn't realize Hawaii was after Monterey. Still, I think the sound of the fake live album is a good sound, and performances are good as well.

    And please, just because the Beach Boys didn't release something does not mean it's not good. Not by a long shot.
     
  5. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Something can still be live in the studio, which the Wally Heider tapes show.

    Yep. Also, it's different being there and hearing these performances than listening to them after the fact on our home stereos. There's always something about a live show that sounds better in person. And please don't let us start talking about the sound of being there vs. listening to the live show at home. There are likely many threads about that.
     
  6. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I think they would have went over great. Hippies didn't give a damn who did the music, as long as it was good.
    Look at how great Shanana did at Woodstock.
    Concerts were big parties that were about the music during the rock era, not overpriced gala events that were contests to see who still "has it".
    Nobody was out of place at music events then. Variety was wanted, not shunned.
     
  7. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    That is my point, the word perception. The perception here was false. The weren't doing surf music, they weren't an oldies band, they were making new music. Everyone in the world knew that, except here in the U.S.. Monterey would have given them good press had they succeeded there. It amazes me that the rock press placed so much credence on one concert. Thinking about it now, it seems somebody's panties were in a bunch because they pulled out. Brian was on the board of directors for the show, so maybe that caused some ill feelings losing their closing night band.
     
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  8. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    True that. And at Brian's suggestion too.
     
  9. jamesmaya

    jamesmaya Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Besides their music (had the Beach Boys performed at Monterey), it would've been cool to hear Mike Love address the "Love Crowd".
     
  10. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    But, at the time of Monterey (June 1967), they weren't making new music! They hadn't released anything new since the previous October. That is what the world knew. They pulled out of Monterey. They were obviously not capable of performing, as evidenced by their action.
    Those are the facts.
     
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  11. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    If The Beach Boys were willing to retaliate against David Marks in his entertainment career, I can imagine that journalists were willing to retaliate against The Beach Boys for not delivering on their own Brian Wilson's pop genius hype beyond "Good Vibrations" and the band's inability to make the Smile project a success.
     
  12. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    I know that, but what happened with the perception of the band came directly after Monterey. They were still in good standing up to the show. The layoff didn't seem to affect them elsewhere, as H&V and the singles that came after fared much better elsewhere than they did here. Same with the albums, they all did much better outside the U.S.. The decision to pull out was mainly Brian's call and the guys followed. All water under the bridge this 48 years later.
     
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  13. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    So you're arguing that even though they were perceived as passé, they actually weren't? That does not make sense, because the perception that something is passé is entirely a matter of opinion. There is no way to objectively measure whether or not something is passé. Clearly, a lot of people thought they were passé because they stopped buying their records.

    What evidence is there that their failure to appear at Monterrey was the main cause of negative reviews or other coverage in the rock press? As I've noted, it seems likely that the music they were recording was a significant cause of the negative reactions they received. Not because it was bad, but because it didn't have qualities that would appeal to either the serious rock fan or the kids who listened to top 40.
     
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  14. Bruce Johnston weighs in on this thread topic , link to the whole interview from 2013 interview is at bottom and talks about a lot of interesting stuff, including when Beatles John and Paul,first heard Pet Sounds.

    RCM: The Beach Boys were originally slated to play the Monterey Pop Festival but later dropped out. Was it a mistake for the band not to play that festival?

    Bruce Johnston: To be honest with you, it went from “Here’s the money, here’s the offer, you’re headlining” to “Now this is gonna be a non-profit show” so we pulled out. All these guys who were making a lot of money in the music business got involved in the Monterey Pop Festival and turned it into a free thing.

    So us playing at the Monterey Pop Festival might have extended the hip cool faction for ten minutes for the band. In all honesty, I don’t think we did anything hip or cool on a mass level after Pet Sounds.

    RCM: In 1970, you spoke about the problem with how the public perceived the band as “Surfing Doris Days”. The music you were creating during this period stands among the band’s most artistic and forward thinking. How did you work to counter attack that problem?

    Bruce Johnston: We didn’t have anyone adjusting our image and perception. That was just who we were. People didn’t know image-wise that we were anti-war at the time I said that. I still thought more about music than image. How can I expect Brian Wilson to win a gold record in the Olympics every year of his life? He was the leader of the band for so long in the studio and he did beautifully in those first five or six years.

    - See more at: http://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/2...iew-beach-boys/#sthash.lwbdcLoc.anculu9D.dpuf
     
  15. lou

    lou Fast 'n Bulbous

    Location:
    Louisiana
    The reasons given at the time was Brian working on Heroes trying to finish the single (which is true based on the session dates), Carl's problems with the draft board (he was having problems but in May the Boys went on their third European tour, doubt this was a major reason), and lastly Mike objecting to Coca Cola sponsoring the festival. But I think Mike not liking not making any money was the most important factor, as well as Brian being distracted. I'm sure Brian would have wanted to present some of his new music but there wasn't time to rehearse any new material with the studio session push right after the Boys returned from Europe.
     
  16. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    In late 1967, the non-teeny bopper US rock press consisted of the just emerging Rolling Stone and Paul Williams' Crawdaddy! I avidly read them both. Williams published a two-part interview with David Anderle that breathlessly made it sound like the unreleased Smile was the most fantastic set of recordings in musical history. It also reviewed Wild Honey quite favorably. Meanwhile, Rolling Stone scored the group for canceling at Monterey and for releasing sub-par music unworthy of its reputation, a characterization that was unfortunately on the money for many long-time fans like myself. In England, publications like Melody Maker, Disc and the NME continued to rave about the group as among rock's royalty. There was no grand conspiracy against the Beach Boys by the Third Estate. For me, I bought Smiley Smile, excited at what I finally had in my hands, took it to my dorm, slapped it on the turntable, and discovered that...it sucked, but for the two singles on it. After five solid years, the group had let me down. When the Smile material finally emerged, I concluded that, if anything, it didn't warrant the euphoric descriptions that I had read. I understand now that the wheels were coming off the group's machine, due to Brian's breakdown, drug use, the leadership vacuum caused by the jettisoning of father/manager Murry, and the rather unique interpersonal relationships between these "brothers, cousins and friends." The Beach Boys' commercial decline was caused by the cruel fact that they had stopped delivering the goods, not by those evil journalists. I kept buying the albums and still liked a lot of what I heard, but less so, an unfortunate reality all too accurately reflected in what I read. YMMV.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  17. Thank goodness The Beach Boys had someone else to give them a name. Beach is an even cooler band name than The Pendletones. o_O
     
  18. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    As Bruce points out in the article (above), they weren't trying to be cool or hip. They wanted to just make music. Except for the lack of selling records, I don't think they really cared about the Hippy culture. They never really went with hard rock or the blues, they kind of tried to stay mainstream. As they found out, it was quite hard to do that, given that everything was labeled and niche'd. What was going on here in the U.S. was quite different than the rest of the world. I doubt they could have stayed together through all of that had they not had the popularity throughout the rest of the world. Unlike most bands they didn't have to pay their dues when they started out. They had to pay it and then some in the late 60's and very early 70's. They worked hard and were able to regain most it through the Endless Summer release. Then their second period of superstardom took flight.
     
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  19. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    This.

    The lone significant factor in all of this. Sure, plenty of other little issues, but the biggest shortcoming of all is not having current material in the marketplace.

    A finished Smile would up the confidence and competence level significantly. It's not like they were crappy performers from '64-66. On the contrary.

    I won't pretend Smile would have achieved Pepper status, but if finished on time, it would have been remarkable and talked about. A live performance at a high-profile event would have been highly anticipated.

    Otherwise, anything else about a hypothetical performance in 1967 is wobbly speculation.

    Unless they wore the striped shirts, that is; FAIL.

    o_O
     
  20. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    Agreed, it would have been better than Pepper, albeit likely less popular. It would have bolstered their artistic credibility in a way that Smiley Smile never could.

    I concur that Smile's demise was the critical factor in their waning fortunes in '67, not the failure to perform at Monterey. In fact, the former likely led to the latter, as Brian's confidence was shattered and they scrambled to recover.
     
  21. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Fortunately for the band, they never had to worry about Brian's confidence. They have boatloads of talent that they can get by with with Brian's full, partial, or nonexistent participation in the creative direction of the band.
     
  22. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    :laughup:
     
  23. Singing talent yes. Writing arranging and production talent, not at that time.
     
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  24. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    :angel:
     
  25. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    The Mamas & Papas appeared at Monterey...in fact, they were the closing act, IIRC.

    So, the discussion that stems from that fact is....if the Mamas & Papas and The Association and Simon & Garfunkel could all play at Monterey and not get booed off the stage.....why couldn't the Beach Boys?
     
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