What is it with Discogs sellers? Post your horror stories here...

"Discogs is a platform specifically tailored to music sellers.".....there's at least two sides to every deal. What about the buyers?

"In almost all cases in this thread, dissatisfaction has been the result of the buyer's assumptions or inaction."....says person who makes assumptions.

 

It isn't a rant. It's an explanation. Look up the definition of each; there is a difference.

Boy, you sure sound like you feel persecuted. Again, it's called an explanation. Perhaps read with that in mind instead of artificially inserting an accusatory tone to innocuous comments?

You've never heard of MusicStack and eBay?

In this case, I was specifically explaining the reason why it operates differently. And since this ties directly into your want for specific masterings, your comment is pointless as you're taking it out of context.

No assumptions made. It's called actual reading comprehension. Try exercising it, sometime.

I can do this all day, dude. If this is the best you can come up with, you won't win. Got anything else than pointless posturing? If not, move along. Otherwise, can the attitude... if that isn't too much of a challenge.

 

I wouldn't trust sellers on Ebay to know the difference between one mastering and another....descriptions far too vague.

Aware of Music Stack but I don't think it's anywhere near as good or as comprehensive as Discogs.

Still no explanantion who you're referring to when you say this: "Buying something and bitching about the shipping prices after is baffling".

Based on the tenor of some some of your posts (to quote another of your interlocutors) maybe you just don't like Mondays?

 

Nice try but you started this by antagonizing me out of nowhere so don't try to save face when you stirred the pot and couldn't take what I was dishing back in return.

Better luck next time.

 

lol, I just received 3 LPs from a seller. Two had the wrong runout. And in both cases they were very simple matrix to verify and the entire reason for the order. One of them was listed as NM sleeve .. with no insert at all (the insert matters on this one). One of them had NM media that was all scratched up on side 2. sigh. It's actually no big deal as I'll deal with it one way or another. But, you roll the dice often enough and you are bound to get snake eyes. On the other end of the spectrum, I got another order where all the items were in BETTER condition than stated.

EDIT: HAH, it gets better. I just had a seller ask me what I mean by the runout matrix I sent for them to verify.

 

"...couldn't take what I was dishing back in return.".....

It was like being savaged by a dead sheep (afraid I can't claim credit for that one but it seems appropriate)

 

Really, you think all used records should be play graded? Your buying $5 records who's got time to play grade something like that. You must be new, have you ever been inside a record store? I haven't seen a store in my area ever play grade or even visually grade anything and they only wash really dirty records. You might find records on this site that are being sold and they have listened to them.

Personally myself I don't use the word mint when it comes to records, even new sealed records are not mint, they are as factory delivered. If I have a $100 record I generally wash it and give some of it a listen. Nobody is going to do this with $4 to $20 records and they have thousands of titles being sold. I also don't wast my time with listing individual titles that are $4- $10, I rather sell those in box lots.

Let me ask you this, lets say your seller who sold you a $5 record did all you wanted. Lets say the record cost him $2, he then washed it really good gave it a listen and graded it, then a new inner sleeve and a outer bag. Then took the time and materials to pack it up, stand in line at the post office to get you the record.
Would you pay $30 for that record now?
The seller just spent about two hours dicking around with that record, so in reality it's not a $5 record in my opinion anymore. No my friend you want the world but fail to see the time it takes for you to be able to sit at your computer and click your mouse and have something land on your door step. Or maybe people should only make $1.50 an hour so you can buy records online, but you will shoot yourself in the foot if you don't have any local stores, because no one will ever sell records if this is the norm.

They also will not sell, what it looks like is noobs buying what's listed as mint because they think there is such a thing. So one seller list a VG copy as -M, another seller list a -M copy as V+, witch record do you think will sell first?

I have to laugh at some of the WTB listings on this site.
Everyone of them ask for Mint, for some 50 year old record
Then they want an exact matrix of some rare title
Then offer 50% less than the title goes for and ask for free shipping on top of that.

 

Nonsense. I speak from experience.

 

I can look for you, I have some of the S/T still in shrink and you can have it for free. Let me know in a PM.

Wonderfull, every complaint in this thread is for buying what was listed as mint but it was not when they got it. If they are running around buying only copies listed as V+ it's not showing in this thread. They are trying to get the best they can at what one feels is a fair price, so it's only natural to gravitate to the highest rating in hopes to get the best. When they don't get mint because it really doesn't exist, but now the buyer is looking for any flaw because it was listed as such. This is where the complaints come from.

I don't disagree with you that a seller should be conservative in their grading but as I said.

They also will not sell, what it looks like is noobs buying what's listed as mint because they think there is such a thing. So one seller list a VG copy as -M, another seller list a -M copy as V+, witch record do you think will sell first?

I wouldn't list an Excellent specimen as V+ so if the only other option is to use Mint I guess that's where I'll put it, even though I don't agree with that word used when it comes to records.

 

Whatever you say, lightweight.

 

Sold a bob Marley cd
Guy demanded a full refund for fingerprints on the disk, never returned it, I agreed to refund
Had no money in PayPal had to wait for a bank transfer to refund this fool,
Left a negitive for me he’s got 36 feedbacks I have 3,089

 

Play grading is an interesting topic.

As a buyer, I've primarily run into sellers who use "play grading" to apparently intentionally overgrade their records. I always ask for a visual grading when sellers mention they've play graded something, as I've repeatedly purchased "play graded" VG+ or NM records that were VG- at best. I also ask them what gear they used to play grade... you never know if they're using a Crosley or a super forgiving but not accurate DJ cart when they "grade" something.

As a seller, I just don't have time to play grade everything, but I offer sound samples for anything I've listed for $100 or more.

 

It took me quite a few years and orders on Discogs, but I finally had to adjust my expectations when it comes to sellers not using Goldmine grading, especially sellers in the UK. If they list something as NM, it's usually VG+ and if it's listed as VG+, it often has a lot of scratches and is the low end of what I would put on my turntable. One UK seller I used to buy from would frequently say something in the description like "vinyl in near mint condition with superficial marks that don't affect play except for a few pops and clicks" (?!) So...VG then? LOL

In fairness, I'm sure there are some obnoxious buyers too who expect a 50 year record to look like it just came off a record shelf. But don't call something near mint when it clearly isn't and putting an EX grade under the NM grade shouldn't be allowed either. And yeah, the lack of pictures and descriptions is troubling. I hate it when you have to message a seller and ask if they have the OIS or inserts when they don't mention them one way or the other.

 

I think this was exactly what Burntable.com is supposed to solve. My only problem with it is all the stuff I WANT seems 30% overpriced but maybe this is what a balanced market looks like. One where an NM is actually an NM and priced appropriately... There's a VG+ Robert Ludwig Led Zeppelin II on there for $800. It's a NM to my ears. Still overpriced by $500, IMO.

 

As I mentioned earlier, that still wouldn't be enough unless the gear is sufficient to expose imperfections. If someone uses a cheap elliptical stylus and judges a record to be NM, in most likelihood, my Dynavector XX2 MKII cart will reveal many more imperfections, rendering it a VG+ at best on my end. In that case, it wouldn't necessarily be the seller's fault but the end result is the same with or without an audio sample. That RL LZII you mentioned was play-graded with a Pro-Ject turntable and no mention of which cart.

Regarding worth, that's all in the eyes of a buyer. A product is worth what someone is ready to pay for it. To me, the idea of spending a couple of million dollars for a white canvas with a red dot is ludicrous but someone somewhere feels this is a good enough price to buy. Personally, I'm OK to overspend if I get a quality record in true NM condition. A deal isn't one if the condition isn't what was advertised, IMHO.

 

Received 4 items today ... 3 in one pack, 1 in the other. Pack 1 had the wrong record ... well correct $1 bin version of the record, instead of the expensive one I paid for.
2nd one had these two NM beauties. Seriously, these were listed as Near Mint/Mint - ... just wow.

 

The worst experience I had on Discogs was when I purchased a NM CD copy of the US Capitol Doug Sax mastering of Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here". It wasn't even close to the description as it was an EU copy, both disc and jewel case were scratched and even the booklet wasn't close to NM - didn't even bother to ask for a refund. I was that angry I threw it in the bin and left negative feedback, to which he replied I had lied about the whole experience and left me negative feedback as well - the only negative feedback I've ever received. Purchased a new copy from another seller and that was exactly as described.

 

My experience with Discogs purchases has been pretty disappointing. A few in the last year. I purchased a UK copy, "VG+" of an album and got a VG US copy with a cover no better than G. I purchased a white label promo of a single VG+. Opened the box to find an unplayable (cracked) stock copy. Even without the crack the record was in poor condition. Purchased a copy of an album listed as a first press, received a much later stock copy in a moldy sleeve. Spent big bucks on a "VG+" mono copy of The Yardbirds Little Games. Took the thing out and could tell right away that it would not play with a skip on side 2. It was real obvious. The seller replied to me that it was in the terms in his terms and conditions that grading was subjective or some other bs and kept with all of these communications that always mentioned the terms and conditions of the sale like some shady lawyer. In general I find that sellers don't do a good job of matching up the item that they are selling with the actual Discogs listing. Wrong country, plant, label, etc.

 

I just recently asked a seller to verify the matrix. They asked what is a matrix?

 

I should add that until the last few things, I’ve had great luck with the sellers

 

Taking a look at that picture, well, there's no reason to sell records in that condition. None whatsoever. That seller is not doing the hobby any favors. Or himself.

 

I've had a long back and forth with the seller. He hasn't tried to make an excuse. He knows he messed up. Or at least seems to. So, even though I've had a few issues with what I've received recently, so far all the sellers have tried to make the transaction right. I'm sure mostly just to keep the negative feedback off the books. But, hey that is a great tool. I'm sure there are plenty of buyers who abuse that ability. So, it's tough on both sides.

 

They do actually list the gear on a lot of them which is indeed very useful. Some of the listings have these green equipment tags. Not sure who decided "Mountain Dew" green was the appropriate color for this but...

 

Yes, I did see that. What I'm saying is that this is lower-end gear + no cart is mentioned either. Lower-end gear + elliptical cart = extremely imprecise reading of musical content. Very forgiving which can give the wrong impression as to the play-grade condition of a record... which defeats the purpose of this website.

 

I both agree and disagree. That might be imprecise, but "extremely" absolutely not; in no way ever. The DCS900 series ADC is imprecise, distortion all over the place, yet it's probably on over half the DCC CD releases. I do agree that every signal chain can be better. This will almost always be true in my opinion. But I think we can be more pragmatic, here:

1. Unless I misunderstood, in the context of this thread we're not talking about splitting hairs within the (albeit) coarse steps of the goldmine grading guide. These complaints are about VG+ being, in some cases, a G or worse. It's utterly horrifying and no buyer is safe.
   
2. A mid-grade turntable, pre and (let's at least assume equally mid-grade) cart are more than enough to cover the coarse steps of the goldmine scale. I can say this about almost *any* turntable/pre combo I've ever heard aside from actual toys. To be fair to goldmine, I don't think this scale was intended to provide anything other than a rough estimate. Anyone who tells themselves they're an audiophile knows that even a VG+ is a dice roll.
   
3. This signal chain from vinyl to ADC is enough to place the vinyl within, to my ears, 5 or so steps inside of the VG+. With my cart and pre, it's going to be 10-15 steps.
   
4. I can tell enough from this LZII audio that the vinyl needs a real cleaning and I can confidently know what I can get out of it with my Hana SL cart. I know how the imperfections will sound on *my* system.
   
5. All that leaves is the interface: ADC chip and implementation. Even when you look at the ADC performance numbers on a $150 Focusrite Scarlett (they're all ranked on AudioScienceReview) it outperforms something you'd likely have found in Steve Hoffman's mastering studio at any point before the mid 2000s (again, probably a DCS900 series but that's just a guess!). The problem with the DCS? They don't have performance numbers, they have brilliant noise shaping. Same with the KORG MR series. Sound great and used by the best mastering engineers. Yet, horribly, horribly imprecise.

I will leave you with my favorite quote on vinyl grading: "The typical lifespan of a vinyl record is somewhere between 1 hour and 1000 years depending on how it was treated."