Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by DaleClark, Dec 14, 2020.
Right you are!
I'm seeing a ton of rare vintage LPs that are US pressings listed from sellers in the Russian Federation, France, Italy, and other odd countries.
Amazing how many of our pressings made it to these distant places, and it's often claimed M and NM condition, or of course the highest prices being offered. I guess other countries really are into US pressings. As if we are the center of the universe.
I did this just last evening. A couple of titles that I wanted. Both were available secondhand, but at silly prices. Sometimes there's a benefit from not being a "collector", and just wanting the music in a format I prefer. Humorously, the Russian editions are in "Mini LP" sleeves. That should be good for a laugh.
Why is that funny? It might be funny if they are all made in Russia and have Japanese or Chinese obi, and all credits like an import. But why is Mini LP format funny?
Much like the US collectors crapping themselves over Beatles, Stones, Floyd, Zep ect. ect. ect. UK pressings!!!
It’s most often in my collection country of origin of recording. So Beatles, Stones, and Floyd UK so often did top US pressings. If it’s a US act, US pressings are the way to go.
Just Putin it out there, but I've noticed this recently too!
Actually purchased a Russian-made boot leg a few months ago - not that bad sonically - after a few vodka's the mastering would be perfect!
Oh there are laws, but there is no enforcement.
I am not sure if you are not aware of that, but for decades European customers have been importing US records in great numbers. That being said, if there is suddenly a glut of releases flooding the market, I would be suspicious. But there are serious record collectors everywhere in the world and they have stuff that you would have never dreamt off.
Nothing do with luck.
So do the Russians tend to avoid copyright laws? Any proofs?
Report on the protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights in third countries
I have some "Mini LP" Be Bop Deluxe releases from the Russian Federation. I guess glue was in short supply. As was someone who knew where the folds in the sleeves went. Just hilariously inept. There was simply no way to compare them to their Japanese counterparts.
Proof? They're often, in my experience, on a level - or worse - than Chinese bootlegged copies, quality wise. I'd only buy from there if it were a title I couldn't get normally.
Hmmm....that would explain some U.S. sellers selling the same kind of recordings. I always assumed, if it's on ebay and not taken down, then it's allowed.
Odd, but when I'm on Discogs, the Russian pressings I see say, "This release has been blocked from sale in the marketplace. It is not permitted to sell this item on Discogs." Ebay on the other hand seems to have no issue letting dealers in the US, UK or actually in Russia sell anything. I bought a number of the Led Zep reissues on ebay from a New York dealer, and after receiving them and noticing the lack of detailed credits that some of the other titles I'd bought at Target had, I looked on Discogs and the catalog numbers for those specific copies said they were Russian counterfeits. I got a full refund. The problem is, unlike those Zeps, so many Russian boots are pretty much identical to the legit versions, so it's hard to know if you're getting the real thing or not and the dealer who might've gotten it used isn't really at fault.
You are hinting at something that I assumed all along. Many people who bought these releases are convinced that they are legit. But they are not. I am not sure that the dealers are not at least partially responsible, because they usually know what is going on.
The sheer number of counterfeit releases from Russia on Discogs is astonishing.
By the way: It has nothing to do with Russian or American or German people, it has to do with enforcement. When the vinyl revival reached its first peak about ten years ago, there was a large number of counterfeit LPs of rare records in German record stores. Labels caught on and ended this by enforcement, but they also offered legitimate releases of these records. But when there is no enforcement, it just goes on and on.
My experience on Discogs has been a bit different, as the specific titles I've been looking at pretty much always say the Russian versions are not allowed for sale there, unlike ebay where they openly say they're from Russia, so buyer beware, or buyer be gullible. But yeah, it's really astonishing. I have been trying to find a legit copy of a fusion instrumental solo CD by Dream Theater guitarist John Petrucci. There are a number of copies on ebay coming from the "Russian Federation," but on Discogs, they list not one but TWO different Russian versions — neither allowed for sale there — but the pictures of the Russian copies show how difficult it is to distinguish them from the legit copies, even down to the exact same MATRIX NUMBER in the photos for one of the versions! For starters, I can't believe something as obscure as an out-of-print 2005 solo album by John Petrucci warrants not just one, but two rounds of Russian counterfeiting, and secondly, it makes it nearly impossible to know if you're getting a real pressing, even if the dealer in the US, UK etc. is totally reputable, because ... how can they tell?
I think this was a misunderstand. I did not mean "for sale on discogs", I meant "listed as releases on discogs".
When it comes to premium record releases we pretty much are the center of the universe.
Yeah, I was thinking you meant for sale. But yes, when you look at a specific release and then it has the "Versions" where it lists all the different countries, reissues etc., it does list the Russian releases with a date etc. but when you click on them, even though it has the info, matrix number, photos of the inserts and everything, it also has that message that it can't be sold there. These counterfeits really make it a challenge to try and obtain a genuine copy when the knock-offs are identical to the original. I always wonder, does Russia have ANY legit manufactured releases of international artists like McCartney, Springsteen etc.? Or is everything counterfeit because no one can really go there and hold them accountable?
I have a legitimate Universal Russia cd of Never Mind The Bollocks.
Any time I get a quiet record, I consider it lucky.
I've seen unofficial releases being sold not by eBay sellers in the US, but within the European region. A whole lot of them are sold for prices that are too good to be true and completely sealed.
Your best bet, to be on the safe side, is to ask the seller for pictures of the CD and matrix runout and compare it to the legit release. Sometimes, the font and spacing of the matrix runout in an unofficial release will differ from the legit release and other times, even the screen printed side of CD may differ, too.
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