What kind of stereo you have is really not important here! (REVISITED)

I agree.

 

Thanks!

 

Has anyone ever commented here that Tracy Jordan (Tracy Morgan) on 30 Rock always has real (not prop) high-end audio equipment in his dressing room?

 

+1

 

The only thing I would say is that if someone posts comment or review on the sound quality of a product or album mastering, and they would like others to consider their opinion, then it helps to know the equipment used as their reference point. If someone doesn't want others to be able to give fair consideration to their views/opinions on the sound quality of products/masterings then why post them?

 

Well said.

This was really the point I was making in this thread. Yes we all have varying budgets and tastes, but the point was to enjoy your music on what you currently have and not get hung up on what someone else has or the equipment itself. Over analyzing stuff like that tends to make one lose joy on what they enjoy.

Do I want to get the best out of my audio and music? You bet I do!! But I can only upgrade things little at a time, so I can only do things as my budget allows. And since I want to work on getting other projects off the ground first (building a new PC workstation for doing video projects and learning music composition) getting the best audio gear for my value isn't a priority for me at this time, but definitely not off the radar. But it will come eventually. For example, I would love to get some Paradigm speakers as a future upgrade as I had the chance to listen to those when I was visiting my uncle in Ohio (he also has a turntable setup).

But until then, I am good with what I currently have. I know there are others here that have more elaborate setups and have bigger budgets to afford the bigger gear, and that's awesome! Enjoy your music as best you know how to do.

EDIT: I saw from a few posts that this thread is more music related rather than hardware....so Gorts if you see the need to move it to the Music Corner then feel free to do so. I forgot to see what section the original thread was under.

 

That's what I did. For about six years I went to sea to almost exclusively pay for the development of my system.

I don't have a car. I don't take vacations at the beach. And I don't have a house. But I have a system on the level of a Ferrari or a stately home.

I had a friend with a house with whom I co-operate. They get to have a great system in their living room. I get to have a living room to put my great system in until I have a house with a worthy sound room of my own.

Given the way the housing market has turned, the critics who said I should have bought my own house instead of the system don't have much of a leg to stand on these days.

My system was built on sacrifice. And every note that gets played melts away any potential for regrets. I have had a ball doing it. I would do it all over again, and wouldn't trade what I know about good sound (and where I still need to go with it) for anything.

I'm not done yet, but I made it to the point where upgrade opportunities are rare, extremely expensive, or highly labor-intensive. I'm currently stuck struggling with squeezing the labor intensive improvements into short breaks on land. I shall eventually prevail.

It's true what they say - you can have anything you want, as long as you are prepared to give up everything else for a while.

As much as I have spent and as much work as I have done, I would never suggest that it is not worthwhile or that is unnecessary to go further. Why anyone would want to call the next available level of audio performance 'unnecessary' is a mystery to me. Personally unattainable, I understand. We all deal with that, to varying degrees. But unnecessary? No, I don't get that.

You get out of a system what you put into it, and no more. Money, effort, trial and error. A great system takes all of 'em, and when it's all there, listening to music is a night and day better experience. If you are missing any one of these three, you can take a system only so far.

...and that's perfectly fine, so long as you can admit that - without downplaying or denying the value of going further, ever further, with system development.

It's all well and good to develop contentment standing in the pouring rain. But it's undeniably more rewarding to expend a little effort to buy an umbrella. And better still perhaps a tent. And after that a small house with a fireplace. Etc, etc.

Because even the best systems I have ever heard (and I have heard some legendary ones), still have yet even more incredible sonics to unlock. That's kind of the amazing thing about our hobby. The true state of the art is exploring depths that have never in history been explored before. It has not "all been done". Every time you think you have heard things as good as they can get, something comes out that takes it further. Sometimes something very weird.

The desire to explore and understand these rare frontiers is what I believe makes us posters on the hardware forum.

ccm

 

First off get what I said correct, before you call me a troll.
Here is my quote..

as there is not any real way to measure that, with any agreement amongst any dozen people you ask.

Try at least discussing WHAT ive said, instead of some drugged out trolling attempt to say something I didnt even say.


For the record, I said, you cant even get any solid agreement on "what" constitutes true "Hi-Fi". If you ask a dozen audiophiles, they will all come up with differing ideas is all. We all disagree on the forum as to what is truly Hi-fi and what is merely passable sound etc. Its all opinions. Thats simply human nature that we all have differing ideas and goals at to what constitutes great sound.

Im only claiming that my little desk system is highly engaging and fun to listen to. I often prefer it to my 2 larger systems. Im not saying it "Sounds better" per se or that no one could tell the difference, but that my mini system on my desk is for whatever reasons, very listenable and gets me more into the music at times, than my other bigger systems.

Its not all about raw sound quality sometimes.

 

I apologize. I did interpret your statements in a way that you apparently did not intend, and I responded in a way that was both ill mannered and poorly considered. I would hope that you'll excuse me for that. My only excuse is that your example confused me.

If you only meant that "true hifi" was hard to define well enough to communicate its nature even within this small group, I'd certainly agree. Even if you only object to the "true" part, I'm with you.

If, however, you were saying that a shelf system (in the loose meaning of "that thing I had in my dorm") was as valid a contender for the definition -- by measurement and listening -- as some of systems on this board, I'd still make rude noises. That's a bit beyond fanciful, and it was to that interpretation that I responded so strongly.

That last apparently wasn't what you meant. Given that, I can only say that my reading comprehension must have been on vacation, and I do hope you'll accept my apology.

 

Sorry, not buying. The gear matters, if only in that we are striving for "the sound." Some people simply can't tell the difference. Frankly, such people really need to stay out of discussion of Big-Ticket High-End gear. It's one thing to say "I can't hear the difference." It's another to say "and neither can you, you're just fooling yourself."

Right now, my turntable sounds more like 'music' than my CD/SACD player. It required taking advantage of the advice that this forum offers. It's not simply a question of owning the "right gear" [whatever that may be]. I've hear LP-12/Ittok based systems sound horrible because the owner didn't know how to set up his turntable. I've heard Big-Ticket systems fall apart at Audio Shows due to bad set-up in bad sounding rooms. There's a right way and a wrong way to do these things. Knowledge is an asset, denial is not.

 

What kind of stereo you have is really not important here...

...but make sure to fill out your equipment profile so we can see how unimportant your stereo, and therefore your opinion, really is.

 

Coffeecupman, I think you post is wonderful. It is in complete diametric opposition to the half baked response that starts "I think it sounds great, but I don't have anything else to compare it to."

My personal experience is that there seems to be a natural progression of audio appreciation that is available to everyone. Having heard a lot of equipment in different environments, I do look at profiles. The gear and room make a difference.

When it comes to audio hardware, the sky is the limit. Although it becomes "really" expensive to make big gains in a system over about 60K. Software is another matter. Fortunately it can be taken in much smaller jumps and is just as significant.

 

It isn't always really expensive to still achieve big gains even in the context of a six figure system. ARC's upgrade for the REF 5 and REF Phono 2 to SE status are only about $2500 each and the difference is staggering. The jump from a Lyra Titan i to an Atlas, about $3000. Some even cost less. Shunyata's latest interconnects and speaker cables cost about half of what their previous generation did and offer significant benefits.

It's always case by case and making such broad generalizations is usually inaccurate.

 

Indeed.

 

It depends on the person I guess, how equipment and sound quality obbsessed they might or might not be, for total gear heads it will always be mainly about the kind or cost of their stuff. For others it will be less important than the albums. One question you might ask is whether your music collection is more valuable to you than your gear. If you had to give up one or the other which would it be?

 

I have a somewhat unique point of view on this discussion. I firmly believe that what kind of stereo you have matters very much, it matters very much to you (I will explain why below). Whether or not what kind of stereo you have matters to anyone else is up to them, but let me assure you it should matter to you.

I have been an audiophile (and proud of it) since the 70's when I was in grad school. My wife was also in grad school and we were dirt poor. I scraped together every penny I could to buy our first stereo system in 1970 which was centered around a Heathkit amp that I built. Over the years I upgraded the system on several occasions to a better system with a receiver and better speakers. I made an upgrade around 1986 at which time I wanted to buy what I called a "killer" stereo but, my wife convinced me to scale back my plans. In 2001 when we were buying the house we now live in (the most substantial house we have ever owned) I told my wife that part of the deal to buy this house had to be that I get to buy my "killer" stereo and put it in the great room so I could really enjoy the music from it. She reluctantly agreed and you can look at my profile as to what I call my "killer" stereo. Now IMHO the sound of the music from my new stereo is simply wonderful. I can not tell you how much I enjoy listening to music on this system. When I bought the system in late 2001 I was in my 50's and in spite of the usual high frequency hearing loss that afflicts most men I can tell you that with this system I hear things in the music that I had never heard before. This, however, is only part of the reason why what gear you have should matter to you.

Some of you have already heard what I am now going to post so I apologize for repeating it hear. On August 13, 2002 (about 8 months after I bought my current stereo system) I had a myocardial infarction in the left anterior descending artery of my heart. Simply put I had with no warning or previous symptoms the kind of sudden heart attack that you see advertized in the Plavix commercials on TV. As I was being rushed to the hospital (were fortunately the best cardiac care unit in the region is) one of the things that flashed through my mind was am I glad a had a chance to listen to music on my stereo system before I die. This is why it is important to each of us who loves music that you have the best sounding stereo system you can sensibly afford (I am NOT suggesting that anyone spends the child's college tuition fund or anything like that on a stereo system) to listen to that music. Do not assume as I often did that I can wait a few more years (which turned into more than ten years) to buy the system I really want, because as I learned (the hard way ) none of us should assume tomorrow will come for us.

 

I guess I would give up the gear, at least if it were short term, because you can always buy more gear. It's getting tougher and tougher to find great pressings, and more expensive.

In the end, I feel its all a balance. What I don't understand are the people with really expensive systems that don't feel that great recordings are important and vice versa. Why stress out over an expensive, rare pressing if you've only got minimal equipment to play it on?

But everyone has a different perspective and level of obsession with this...

As Wardsweb most accurately put it, the only one you have to please is yourself!

 

It all goes back to getting the most sonic value for the $$ spent. Over the past 30 years I think I followed that mantra pretty well. When I started Affordable$$Audio in 2006 it was to find and review the best budget gear available. What bothers all of us audiophiles is seeing good, hard-earned money being thrown away on crap, when for the same amount and a little bit of effort some great sound could be had.

I will admit that on a semantic level I loath the word "low-fi". I prefer either "entry" or "budget". The next level "mid-fi" TonePub calls it best by using the word "Journeyman" in the magazine, because much like young artisans or craftsman, the knowledge exist but one is still gaining valuable experience. The top end to me is the "holy grail".

 

I just want to rock/chillout/relax/unwind, etc with the tunes and what ever allows me to do that, I'm fine with it. Cassettes/digital/Sandisk/handheld recorder, kazoo, whatever. All that matters to me is being able to "enjoy" the music where ever I'm at. For example, while in the garage listening to the internet radio streamed through a laptop, hooked up to a Creative Soundblaster $50.00 set of speakers with the sub turned up max. More than once people will stop and let me know how good that sounds . I just smile thank them and go back to doing stuff, all the while enjoying the tunes. Sometime I'll even hook up a cassette deck to those Soundblaster speakers and the same thing happens, people stop and talk about how good the music sounds.

Hope this makes sense.

M~

 

Audio gear, CD or LP masterings, etc are not life and death matters, but it is a matter of common sense that these elements are important discussion topics within the context of this forum. This is a separate matter from the general topic of enjoying music. Of course it's important to listen to and appreciate music irrespective of the quality of reproduction. One can appreciate that and also understand the merits of high resolution playback. The bottom line is that the audio system is important within the context of many discussion topics within this forum. The suggestion that we have lost our way since we debate mastering quality, etc is highly presumptuous if not flat out false. The suggestion that leveraging a member's system profile when assessing the relative value of a sound quality opinion is an indication that a member just can't sit back and enjoy music is likewise a flat out misplaced view.

 

I'm enjoying the sounds out of my tiny, one-way computer speakers in my office right now.

 

Right now I'm doing some mastering work on my computer and listening to the output via some Cambridge Soundworks hooked up to a Platinum sub SWX160.

M~

 

Right now, I have no music to enjoy while at work, but I'm excited about receiving Cary Audio's acclaimed flagship tube pre-amp in the mail tomorrow. Gonna be a heck of a weekend!

 

Right now I'm at work eating Cup Noodles, saving my $$$ for some real Mullards.

I concur. Excellent example by Tony. Life is too short.