What kind of stereo you have is really not important here! (REVISITED)

Ok, so in your view "staggering" should never be used in audio conversation. Fine. Can we use "jaw-dropping"?

 

This needs discussion?

 

That's simply not true. We'd still have "extremely staggering". It's fine to have your own conception of what 'staggering' is, but one def from Merriam Webster:

transitive verb
1: to cause to doubt or hesitate : perplex

shows that it's quite common to simply imply being 'taken aback' or 'very surprised' at the differences heard with a new system. This is getting about as silly as people arguing over 'relatively cheap' or 'incredible value'.

 

I wouldn't have thought so.

 

But I bet you're not surprised!

 

So after everthing is said and done no one should make fun of my bose acoustimass 5 speakers ?????????

I'm starting to upgrade and I know I'm doing it backwards. I'll start with the denon DCM 390 CD changer, then a Yamaha RS700 receiver then finally the speakers. The wife likes the small hidden cubes. No surround sound tv so that should make my life a little easier

 

As long as you don't claim they crush a pair of Wilson Alexandrias you should be fine!! I DON'T think you're going backwards, and yes, there's more than one theory on system development. But I would always start out with the best source you can afford. Then I'd shop for the best speakers I could afford by listening to them with equipment comparable to what you'll end up with, with an understanding of what will be required to drive them. Finding speakers you like that are easy to drive will save you money and increase options when looking for an amp. Now having your favorite source and speakers, you can finally pick an amp that's tonality brings it all together.

Others will (very soon) disagree

 

We need an audio meet or audio open house of some sort to happen in Portland or Seattle. I wanna hear some great speaker systems.

I go to the head-fi meets in Portland and Seattle. Get to hear some great headphone systems. Some very expensive headphone systems. I've been able to hear what the very good headphone gear can do and hear for myself why the very good is a whole nother level of good. Some of what separates the good from very good is, dare I say, night and day.

 

I would like one here in Vegas, CES ain't enough.

 

Im sure they are a Night and Day difference in comparison to my Emerson Alarm clock radio that is hanging from a nail through its power cord in the corner of my garage....


Im quite familiar with those, and while not the final word in Hi-Fi sound quality, they do serve a purpose, and are easy to hide and do provide decent enough sound for how small they are! If you ever think about upgrading, The cube type size speakers are available from other sources that have more extended bass (( albeit with a somewhat larger size box and separate woofers and small tweeter )) and with treble that goes beyond 14K. That will allow you to fix the upper bass "hole" and the lack of air in the treble. If you can convince her to replace the Cubes first, with slightly larger more full range ones, then the Bass module can come second.

 

An Emerson alarm clock?! That's the holy grail, man!

 

1960's kids were glad to have one of these. Arguing over who had the most transistors. I see it continues today. Gotta laugh.

 

Good one!

 

Once again, you haven't heard the components in question. And if you've been actually reading or paying attention to our magazine, we have said the word "Best" in regards to a component once in over 400 reviews. We have never said "jaw dropping" "destroys" etc etc for precisely the reason you discuss. If anything I have been less than enthusiastic in print about components that I'm very excited about. I could have written far more enthusiastic reviews about certain products that I really do think are light years ahead of their competitors, but have not for this reason. I'd much rather a reader discover the component for themselves and have that experience.

But every now and then something comes along that makes a big jump and I feel these two components are a pretty big leap from their predecessors. Everyone who has heard them has made the same comments.

More than anything my comment was in response to Randy's comment that once you've spent 60k on a system that there were no huge increases to be made without spending a lot of money. And I submit that there are some.

Perhaps "Staggering" wasn't the right word. But in the context of a $400k system, the diff that spending $2000 on upgrading from a REF5 to a REF5SE is much larger than the .5% cost would suggest. Maybe "major" or "surprising" would be more appropriate.

Either way the difference was much greater than what I expected.

It's just like the review on the Lyra Atlas that will be in our next issue. The cartridge is phenomenally good. However, we've gone the extra mile and compared it side by side in an identical AVID Acutus REF SP/SME V tonearm/table to the Titan and the Kleos, through the Vitus MPP-201 phono stage and a pretty major system. At that level, the differences between these cartridges is quite large.

However, taking these cartridges out of basically a "money no object" system and putting them in a more real world system with a pair of AVID Volvere SP tables, an ARC PH6 phono stage, the Unison Research S6 amplifier and a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C1 speakers, the diff is there but certainly not enough that you would think that the Titan was worth $3000 more than the Kleos or the Atlas worth another $3000. So it is very relative. It would be very easy to use the latter system, still comprised of excellent components and draw the conclusion that the difference between these three cartridges is incremental at best. It's always about context.

At this point in the game, I highly doubt anything will "redefine high end audio as we know it" unless there is a major breakthrough. But you never know. What is important to me is to keep an open mind about this stuff. I've managed to be surprised at every segment of the price spectrum now and then and that's really what makes this job interesting.

 

i wish you would list the emerson alarm clock radio on your profile.

one question, though. does the nail provide additional isolation?

 

I hear ya motorcitydave!

I bought a Sony, Walnut cased, alarm clock back in 1970 in Japan, with the flip-type cards to tell the time. $75 back in 1970 so it wasn't cheap by any standards. It looked and sounded FANTASTIC! Just couldn't pass it up. Drove me nuts. I bought it.

Still have it...and it still looks great, functions perfect, and sounds FANTASTIC!

Go figure! They sure made ' stuff ' to last back then.

I go all the way back to the 70s. We didn't care at all about sound quality. I mean, we wanted a great sounding cassette deck, of course, but We just wanted to hear the MUSIC!

Simpler times.

Music and frisbees...what more do you need??? A hamburger and a coke? A local top quality rock or jazz club to hang out with friends?

 

Uh I consider the nail to allow the radio to move in relation to bass sound waves, and uh...its in a corner to reinforce deep bass, and I think there is some old burlap sacks around it to help cancel out reflections....

Its quite the party when you let it go and crank it up...


.750 Watt at 20% Distortion.

 

Pretty much agree with everything you are saying. I wasn't trying to ignite a debate about adjectives, but this is how a lot of discussions go off the rails. To me, it's not realistic to expect dramatic changes in sound from a modest or even substantial upgrades and there is no shame in admitting this. There is a lot of quality gear out there. I think the reality is that you will inch closer to your goal as you go. Certainly, someone can be surprised or delighted by what they hear and this perception will be important to them. Enthusiasm is good, but over enthusiasm is going to lead to skepticism and lead to a perception that if you do not aggressively follow the latest uprades, you will be left in the dust.

 

it's nice that you have dedicated room for it.

if you're ever interested in selling it, please let me know. with the nail, of course.

 

I was kidding! lol. But to some, a clock radio is all they want.

 

I thought we were all kidding. kevintomb leads the parade.

 

Hey. I've invited many people over to the house to spin vinyl, shoot pool/throw darts and enjoy my stereo and the music. Never once a problem afterwards. But then again, i don't live in LA.

 

Guess that shows how far back I go!

Some of the 1970 clock radios really did 'sound' great!

Maybe they had AlNiCo magnets??? Probably. Never checked mine.

1970 was a great year for musical equipment and personal stereos. And there was tons of it everywhere.

 

That's the reason.

 

Yes, and this is also why we have done almost no reviews on tweaks, etc etc. I completely agree with you in the sense of inching towards your goal. I see setup as part, room as part, cables, vibration control, etc etc. all as part of the total package. I've been criticized more often for NOT saying the new cable, the new vibration footer will TRANSFORM your system into something it was not before. It's like an F1 car really, you get 2hp here and 3hp there, but by the time you add it up, it's the difference between P1 and P6 on the grid.

On many levels it is tough to convey the enthusiasm for the new thing, while trying to not alienate the person with the old thing. A great example of this is when MartinLogan went from the Summit to the Summit X. At the end of the product life, Summit cost $12k and Summit X $15k. Side by side, the Summit X was clearly better and probably in the scheme of things, $3k better, but with no upgrade path, the Summit owner wanting to upgrade was looking at selling their Summits for $6k on a good day and THEN stepping up to Summit X for $15k. At that point, it's a lot tougher decision to make.

A lot of people don't realize that just because there is a new version out there, you don't HAVE to get it, but it is my job to talk about it.

Again, it's not like we're trying to beat the Chinese to establish a colony on Mars, it's just hifi.