What SACD players don't convert DSD to PCM?

I'm looking to get an SACD capable player that doesn't convert the DSD signal to PCM before outputting to the analog outs. I know several Denon DVD players had this capability, like the 29x0 and 39x0 series, but I've also read that they are very unreliable and have a lot of QC issues.

Are there any decent SACD players with this capability that don't cost an arm and a leg? Do the old Pioneer DVD players have this capability? I don't need Blu-ray or 4K playback, nor do I need multi-channel, but if the price is right I won't turn those things down. I'm happy to buy a used player from eBay. Looking to spend $200 or less if possible.

Thanks in advance!

 

I can't think of anything in your price range.
Pure DSD to analog out SACD is a tricky one these days.
To my knowledge, only early Sony SACD players (made until 2004-5) had this. Later models Sony's and other brands players went the multi-format route, and most if not all of them, have some type of PCM conversion before the analog out stage.
I am not 100% certain that my Marantz PM 8003 goes the DSD all the way to analog out. It's not specifically saying that its not, but only the designer would know ths for sure.

Your best bet would be to look for some older (pre 2005) SACD player from Sony. Not really familiar what was in the U.S market back then. In EU/AUS there were Sony XE670,XB-770/780 available at the time. With all of these, you must be very aware of the state of their laser(optical) pick-ups.

Regards

 

Thank you! I have no problem buying used, I just want something reliable. I already have a DAC but it converts DSD to PCM so I thought the best way to get pure DSD playback would be through the analog outs of a disc player.

 

I thought even the cheap Sony Blu-ray players that can handle SACD actually convert it directly to analog. I know my cheap player - a BDP6200 - can output DSD over HDMI, so my assumption is it's converting DSD to analog as well.

Now, its analog output is probably nothing to write home about, although I wouldn't know as I've never used it.

 

That's the problem, there's so little info on which players have a PCM conversion and which don't.

 

Out of your price range, but my Luxman D-05 is, I'm pretty sure, one which avoids PCM. The DAC is a Burr-Brown jobbie: PCM 1795, I think.

Might be worth checking the TI site for which of their DACs don't convert to PCM, then looking for players using them?

 

Although what you mentioned about the Denon players is true, their main issue was the laser assembly, in my case 60 dollars was all I spent to have them fixed (I had both the 2930 and the 3930) and I ended up with an excellent player.

 

I’m probably of my technical comfort zone here.

There's no guarantee that your player will output DSD to analogue just because DAC has the ability to pass or convert the DSD straight to analogue. DSD read from the disc could be converted to PCM even before it hits the DAC? Not sure, but I think there’s more to it than just DAC itself.

Regards

 

I think I may need to bite the bullet on a Denon from that period and worry about repairs if it stops reading discs correctly. Thanks!

 

Hi Merrick,

At that price point you'd probably hear no difference anyway. It really takes a lot of investment to get SACD (DSD) sound better than hi bit rate PCM over analogue out. If I was you I'd try to save some more money and go DSD DAC-> to your receiver or amp. There should be enough out there in $500 range.


Kind Regards

 

I do have a DSD capable DAC, but it's the Geek Out V2+ and it only accepts USB input. My main DAC is the Schiit Modi Multibit and I have no interest in replacing it anytime soon.

 

If you are a DSD fanboy then disregard but.............

So what if it gets converted to PCM........have you actually heard a clear difference in favour of DSD?

My DSD needs to be converted to PCM 24/88.2 by my OPPO before going to my external DAC/PRE and......... IMHO.........sounds wonderful.

 

I have the Denon 2910 in my living room system. Nice player. Bought used and am very pleased with it for its SACD and DVD-A playback. I recently purchased an Oppo 103D for my everything else player in the music room. The Denon has the 6 channel analog out too if you can find a receiver that accepts it. Pretty neat to play 5.1 surround SACD's.

 

Nope. You cannot send analog out over HDMI.

 

I don't think the OPPO's convert DSD to PCM before the analog outputs unless you are using it's built in bass management.

 

Marantz SA-players does pure DSD to Analog.

 

It may all be in my head, but it's at least nice to have the option of hearing it without a PCM stage.

 

I realize the fan makes it less than ideal for audiophile purposes, but did the PS3 convert to PCM before outputting via analog? I have an old thick one that I could potentially use in a pinch.

 

I didn't say that my player was sending analog over HDMI. My cheap Sony Blu-ray can send DSD data streams over HDMI, or it can convert them to PCM.

Since it can output DSD, my assumption is it's directly converting DSD to analog for its own (stereo - no multichannel) analog outputs, instead of doing a conversion to PCM first. Since Sony developed all that hardware and has it sitting around, I think it's a fairly safe assumption.

Keep in mind tho, none of these cheap players are gonna have killer analog components. So even if they're "pure" DSD, I doubt they'd sound better than a more expensive unit would that could only handle high-res PCM. The analog components are likely far more important. Also, high-res PCM actually carries more information than SACD's DSD, so it's not like there's the potential to lose much, provided your system's D/A converter is high-quality.

Remember too, even many SACDs went thru some PCM stage at some point. Many if not most of them aren't "pure" DSD, either.

 

Well if you stick to SA's released by AF, MOFI or AP they sure are pure DSD.

 

Onkyo DV-SP506....confirmed to be DSD direct to analogue. Available in silver or black.

 

It's nice to hear that caupina was able to get those players repaired for a reasonable price. I had a 3930, and sold it because I was worried about expensive repairs- there were lots of testimonials about that at the time. Also, I moved to FLAC playback and no longer have a disc spinner of any kind in my system. While I had the 3930, I thought it did a bit better with DVD-A playback than with SACD. Not sure why that was, but other owners found the same thing.

Back to the laser issue, if it were me, before buying one I'd make sure 1) that replacement laser assemblies for those units are still available, and 2) that you can get it repaired locally for a reasonable price. Given that the issue seemed to be cheap DVD-based lasers in these otherwise nicely built units, there is no reason to believe that a replaced laser wouldn't fail again too.

 

This the online store I got both assemblies from in 2014/2015

Welcome to our website - Liberty Electronics »

I never had a problem with them or the parts and once I got the part for the 2930 I took it to this Denon authorized repair center in CA:

Hitechtronic, Inc.
480 East Rosecrans Avenue
Gardena , CA 90248
Tel.: 310-516-0930 Fax: 310-516-0931

The 3930 I got it fixed in Santiago, Chile where I'm living now.

Good luck!!!

 

Definitively,PS3 converts to PCM over HDMI, Sony never patched it in. PCM@ 176.4 is your option there. It is most likely converted over analog as well,it would be odd if not.
No multichannel analog outs,either. Imho,the analog section ain't great anyway. That fan,though...

 

Your statement is much clearer now. However, I do not think that it is a valid conclusion. Sending it out via HDMI avoids any processing associated with the D/A stages. Sending is out analog requires those stages and their internal processing varies with the model.