what to look for in a turntable? Is there an FAQ?

Anyone know of a good FAQ on turtables anywhere?

My thread about Beatles albums in the Music Forum I've decided I want a turntable. I just want something basic that will sound ok. I've looked at possibly getting a MMF 2.1, but I need a phono stage too & I'm not sure I want to spend $350-$400 to listen to a few records. I also don't want total crap in case I decide to start buying a bunch of vinyl. Are the cheaper Sony's (PS-LX250H) & Technics (SLBD20D) that bad?

Does anyone make something for the US like the Pro-Ject Debut/Phono with a phono stage included? I really like the idea on the Debut/Phono and it comes highly recommended, but the US distributor for Pro-Ject stuff (Sumiko) doesn't seem to offer that model in the US/Canada. At the cost of around $240 for an "high quality" beginner audiophile integrated solution it's really appealing.

I have no idea really what's good or bad as far as turntable features go.

Thanks


~Brian

 

Hey Brian,

The same thing happened to me. All this talk about how superior some vinyl pressings are I decided to get back into the world of vinyl. Here's a thread I started asking for help on TT and pre amps. Some of this stuff is a little more than what you're looking to spend but there are tons of great recommendations there.

By the way, I bought a Rega Plannar 3. That was over seven weeks ago. Still don't have it. I guess I shouldn't have paid in full before I got it. Oh well.

 

Thanks I'll look through that thread now. I could spend more (was looking at the MMF 5), but I'm thinking about getting a Pioneer Elite 45a to do DVD-A/SACD too. If I spend more on a tt setup I don't think I'll be able to swing the 45a for a few months.

 

Brian,there's a lot of knowledgeable people that post here so you should get hooked up if you dig enough.My advice would be to go deep and get the Rega P3 but I'm predjudiced.The extra money you have to spend would be made up on the other end when you find all that good used vinyl cheap.Good luck.

 

I bet that's the most popular TT around here. Seems like that's the one everyone suggests.

 

Running a Rega P25 with a Dynavector MKII moving coil....


Killer.



Ben

 

I'v seem the sumiko (with phono stage and cartridge) at Tweeter, Etc.
which is a new england stereo chain store.

With budgetary considerations, it looks fine. It won't massacre your records if it's set up right, and it's a lot better than no turntable at all. You can upgrade the cartridge later.

A couple of years ago I bought a cheap radio shack turntable, and that's OK also. I used to plug it directly into my guitar amp and listen to 45's. Sounded terrific!

I have an old belt-driven technics turntable with the shure V15-the head thing that holds the cartridge screws off, and I can put a different cartridge on easy.

One good piece of advice I got in here, as I listen to a lot of 45's, was to have a separate conical (spherical) stylus, or a separate cartridge with a conical stylus, for playing 45's, as polystyrene 45's
get worned out with an elliptical stylus.

Now when I can afford it though, I'm getting a Rega P-3!
I'd have one by now, but I had to shell out a lot of dough on other stuff (vinyl, CD's, and computer stuff).

But cheep turntable is better than no turntable.

Of course, I'm no expert on hi-fi! But I think the most important thing is making sure no harm comes to your precious records.

 

Yesman, I ordered a Rega Planar 3 in November 2002, and it took over 8 weeks to get it. I paid in full to a fairly reputable dealer, and I had to pester them constantly, but it did arrive. By the way, I was told all Regas come through Nashville (exclusive importer) so keep at it!

 

there may be a new importer, in dallas, i think.

 

I think they just switched distribution companies so maybe you got of luckier than I will. Thanks for the encouraging words.

 

The old one was in Knoxville.

 

FWIW, I have a MMF5 and am very, very (very very) happy with it. I loved that it came with a good catridge installed and aligned right out of the box. Plug 'n' played a record in around 10 minutes, after setting the counterweight.

I love the super heavy glass platter, and the screw-on clamp.

It's very basic looking however - the Rega's kill in terms of looks - but this has a no-nonsense style to it, and integrates well with the other black components that I have.

 

Just to make things more complicated, I had the total opposite experience of Jeff's with my MMF-5. POS defective in just about every way. Noisy barrings (which I was told would get quiet on break-in but got louder), bad motor (which also got louder), speed variations all over the map (again, bad motor), warped glass platter, and eventually buzzing cables.

The thing is, the dealer I bought it thru was a first class a** h***. A weasel. Shyster. Thief. Crook. Scoundrel!
So my problem was more with the dealer than with Music Hall, which as a flawless reputation for customer service.

The moral of the story? Buy through a reputable dealer and don't be afraid to send it back if it's not perfect. If you have a real life dealer in town who's cool, then ask them to open it and set it up before you buy it. ANY good dealer would do that for you (mine didn't, the jerk). That 'table coulda been a contender!

BTW, I'm a very happy man with my current 'table, but buying vintage isn't the way for a newbie to go.
Dan C

 

Holy Zoo's MMF5 is basically a Rega without the brand, and a few design differences, mostly in the fact that the RB300 arm beats a hell of a lot of other arm in taste tests (and listening tests as well ) but for the money the MMF tables are GGRREAT for a starter table. Best to put good money into the cart.

But I and many forum members have either had a Rega P3 with the Rb300 arm or soon went for one and love it to death. The Elys can install in one step without any need for adjusting for angle. The cart was MADE for the arm and sounds phenomenal.
http://www.rega.co.uk/

 

Thanks for the info guys.

I think I'm going to hold off until I can spend closer to $1,000. I've gone the route of buying something cheap & then ending up upgrading a year later. I don't think I want to do that again. I think I'll buy my SACD/DVD-A player for now & do a TT later in the year. In the mean time I'd still like an faq if there is one so I'm not completely uneducated when I do finally get one.


~Brian

 

Here's something:

http://www.hificorner.co.uk/turntable.htm

 

I'm a big VPI fan. I've had my VPI HW-19III for a few years and I'm in analog heaven. I keep considering of maybe upgrading to an Aries or (blush) a TNT but I keep blowing my "goodies" budget on new media...

Todd

 

Buy the best you can..

I used to use a Kenwood series table with the faux marble base. I thought it was great untill I heard a real table. After you would hear even the Rega P3, you would realise that the low priced Japan Inc stuff is not very good.
I now run both a Linn LP12 and a Rega P25. The Linn is better than the Rega, but at about 5 times the cost when new, it should be.
A decent set up Music Hall or Project will even beat up and spit out a cheap table like you mention (Sony, Technics?). the key to all tabels is a decent set up, have the table level, have the cartridge aligned, and a good support to set it on, and you to will agree that cd is "perfect noise forever"

 

I replaced my twenty year old dual with a Rega-P3 last December. It is an incredible TT. Only I ended up with a white one instead of black, still trying to get use to that.

SACD? I am now vinyl retentive.

 

The person who invented the polystyrene 45 should be shot. This type of record is injection moulded and is cheaper to make than vinyl pressings. The surface is smooth, but beneath the surface is grainy rough stuff, so if the stylus wears through the surface a little, the noise rises really dramatically. Almost all Columbia 45's pressed in the U.S. are of this type, as are many others. Fortunately, this is not much of a problem for British collectors, unless they collect imports, as Britain never adopted that type of "pressing".

ZipGun is right in pointing out that many eliptical styli, and others, even expensive audiophile types, do indeed wear these things out prematurely. Some of those records wear out if you look at them funny.

A conical stylus has a larger surface contact area, so the pressure is lower for any given tracking force. Unfortunately, though, the larger contact area in this case means poorer tracing ability, which means higher distortion and poorer treble response. In theory "fine line" type styli, which also have large contact areas but don't have the tracing problem, should wear the records even less than conical styli. However, for whatever reason, this is simply not always the case.

Shure made some cartridges that were specifically meant for not wearing out that type of record, with a "Masar" polished stylus. I find the V-15-VMR is pretty safe too.

 

You guys did it now! I just bought a turntable.

I figured since The Needle Doctor is 10 minutes from my office I'd see what they had. They carry the MMF & Project (Sumiko) stuff, but after hearing all of the glowing recommendations I really wanted a Rega. Wouldn't you know they had a used P3. So I got a used Rega P3 with a new RB300 arm & Ortofon OM10 Super Cartridge for $450.

After doing lots of internet browsing and research I think I got a good deal.


So now for the new questions.

What else do I need?

I think I'm going to get the $25 Lil Rat for a Phono Stage for now, unless one of the $100ish ones out there are good enough that it could suffice as a "permanent" solution.


What else should I look at cleaning wise?

I got a Stanton stylus cleaner kit & a Audioquest anti static cleaning brush. Roger, the guy that helped me thought that would be enough to get me started.


How do I evaluate the condition of used vinyl?

I know that obviously scratches are bad, but I assume most stuff is going to have at least a minor surface scratch or two. Is there a technique for looking at these things to determine they aren't warped or scratched to badly?


I of course have lots of ideas about music I'm going to buy (Beatles BC-13), but could use some suggestions for some good Jazz & Classical stuff to look for. My Jazz experience is limited. I love Kind Of Blue(CD) and have always wanted to delve deeper, but other than the Ken Burns Art Monk disc and John Coltrane's Giant Steps which I own on CD my Jazz palate is almost non existent. I love Big Band music so any of that would be good too.


Thanks all, I look forward to getting this set up this week and giving it a spin.

~Brian



NP = Norah Jones: Live In New Orleans

 

I've said it before, and will say it again, DO NOT scrimp on your phono stage as if it's an afterthought. The li'l Rat has no place amplifying the nice rig you scored. I don't know if the dB Systems stage is still available (http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/weaver10.htm), but it's a serious stage and a very good value.

Also, IMHO I don't think any $100-ish phono stage is a permanent soultion. Someday you'll audition a tube phono stage, and after that...well, let's just say that lust can drive you to do crazy things.

John K.

 

Nice score scarecrow.

I use Disc Doctor http://www.discdoc.com/p15.html very diluded to clean my old dusty records (and the used records I buy). Then last on my new records, stylast on my cart.

 

A DJ mixer is my solution and it goes a long ways with me.

 

That's why I had permanent in quotes

I guess what I mean is should I use a Lil Rat ($25) for a month or two and save up extra money so I can spend more or should I buy a $100-$150 piece and use that for a while. If I buy a $100-$150 unit now I won't be replacing it for at least 6 months to a year.