What VERY expensive MC cartridges have you owned, and are they worth it?

I've owned a Koetsu Black in the past. Nice to say that I owned a Koetsu, but I didn't think it was a particularly great cartridge. To be absolutely fair, though, the rest of my system is much better now than when I was running that KB.

I've run retipped/modified cartridges for about the past 7-8 years now as I feel that's where the value is. I ran rebodied and retipped Denon 103R's for about 6 years, which played well above what I had into them as far as I'm concerned and weren't too embarrassed by some much more expensive cartridges, and currently run an Ortofon MC 20 Super which has been retipped with a sapphire cantilever and microridge stylus. It is a much better cartridge than I recall it being with the stock aluminum cantilever and it is also an exceptional match with my phono stage (whose manufacturer essentially markets/sells and rebranded version of the MC 20 Super from what I can see) so that definitely helps. I'd expect it to be pretty competitive with stuff deep into the Cadenza line at this stage, so I'm good with that.

That being said, I've heard some very pricey cartridges (Clearaudio Goldfinger, Dynavector XV-1s and XV-1t, upper price range Benz, etc.) in a friend's system which is much better than mine.They've sounded pretty spectacular. All a bit different, but spectacular nonetheless.

Is a $3000, $5,000 or $10,000 cartridge worth it? I really think you have to be looking at context in terms of what kind of a system that cartridge goes into. In my system, which probably has a retail value of around $12,000-$14,000, it doesn't make much sense in my opinion. I don't believe I would getting 100% of the benefit or value out of the cartridge. Not even close actually. Slotted into a $100,000+ system which is capable of not only more detail retreival but also much better scale and dynamics, it may indeed make a lot of sense. But those systems don't come cheap and they typically need to go into a very big (and well treated if you want to realize the full potential) room.

Then you also have to take into consideration that many of the uber high end (and price!) cartridges tend to provide subjectively different sonic "flavors". Generally speaking, a Koetsu and a Lyra are going to give you a very different representation of the performance. And one may well favor and benefit different types of recordings than the other. My friend runs multiple tables and cartridges for this very reason but mere mortals may not be able (or willing) to do so.

There's no such thing as perfection in this hobby; only attempts at it which are ultimately subjective compromises in one area or another. With cartridges, I want one that walks a middle line balancing detail retrieval and musicality; there are lots of hyper detailed cartridges which I would deem to be not particularly musical and lots of musical cartridges which may well be lacking in detail retrieval. I'd rather compromise a bit on both and take the middle ground, which I think I have ultimately done in my own setup now (to me that is an approach which results in something closer to live music), but everyone has their own subjective preferences and may not want to take that route.

 

Linn Troika , back in the 80,s.
Cost a lot today. Was special.
One thing thst concerns me nowadays is the appalling mastering today.
The ammount of reverb, compression,
And too high a cutting level thst today's records suffer.
The best record in my collection is a 1956 mono pressing issued by the Decca record company.
I thing maybe a high end cartridge ir wasted on today's records

 

Presently have a Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation on the SME and recently heard a Koetsu Urushi Tsugaru on a Transrotor w/SME 312 (or 322 arm-- specially made by SME for Transrotor -- it's even stenciled Transrotor on arm). I've thought of upgrading when the time comes, and Koetsu would be a contender; but, I also mentioned to a friend, when the time comes, I may just buy another PSP. Tme will tell.

Best Sirs,

Bob

 

Spent a small fortume back in the 80s on my 1st expensive catridge Koetsu Black & just recently a stunning ortofon MC A95

 

Interesting thread.

Got a Benz SL - not super high end, I understand, but as much as I could justify. But even enjoying that, sensing the ever-approaching re-tip, risk of damage, potential of failure (mine's stopped working through one channel), and lack of value they hold... I came to feel it's an uncomfortable part of the audio chain to stretch yourself out on. Furthermore I found myself not playing some slightly rougher records to save cartridge mileage, which seemed daft! Now considering a cheaper replacement, even if it's sacrificing some SQ.

But, of course none of that matters if you can afford for it not to.

 

I have a retired late 1980s Audio Note IO (the original Japan version). I remember it as really, really good, but I'm also enjoying my current Goldring Eroica MC high output. It doesn't have the inner glow of IO but it is nevertheless very nice to listen to. And compared to my $$$$ digital setup, my much more humble vinyl setup does a very respectable job and is clearly preferable on some recordings, such as e.g. Mahler's 5th w Barbirolli.

I'm contemplating (and saving for) having my IO rebuild by ANUK but I'm not sure the price is worth it compared to buying, say an IQ3 and spend the saved money on a better phono stage. An IQ 3 would allow me to sell my AN-S7 SUT, which is still worth a penny on the used market, AFAIK.

 

Warren, if you are referring to MM or high output cartridges, I can understand why you like what you are hearing because the phono preamp just needs one setting. I was perfectly happy with my Shure V MXr until I needed to replace the stylus. At the time there was no Jico and no Shure.

I now have an expensive Sound-Smith Hyperion. I am very pleased with the sound, which certainly better than anything I have owned before.

 

Is $1000 expensive? I’d say so. And that’s what I dropped on a Sumiko Blackbird LO MC. And for me, there’s no going back. It’s perfect for me.

 

Unfortunately I’ve found better sound as I moved up in price, though the ‘table itself and tonearm made more of a difference than I would’ve imagined when I ran the same cartridges on different turntables.

I’m currently primarily using a Benz Micro Wood SL, and it is clearly the best (and most expensive) I’ve used so far. I compared it with more expensive Ortofons in the Cadenza line and preferred the Benz (though I didn’t compare on my setup unfortunately). The Benz seems to offer real bang for the buck, in relative terms, at $1,800 or so retail price. It looks hand-crafted, and like it should be much more expensive than it is. And it also sounds wonderful!

I also like the relatively inexpensive Ortofon OM (or Pro S) with the 40 stylus, though the Benz has a much wider soundstage, probably due to its superior channel separation figures. I’ve also got a very inexpensive Shure MX35 I use occasionally that’s also good, though it clearly lacks the detail of the other two.

 

Agreed, methinks the cantilever material-construction/diamond profile is mostly where it's at.

 

@Warren Jarrett Your interesting thread has really got me thinking. As I trust your opinion very much, what would you think the best way to go: 1. To have my Io cartridge rebuilt at AN-UK (to an IoII) and keep my EAR 834P (w upgraded parts), or get an IQ3 and sell the AN-S7 and spend that money on a better phono preamp?

My remaining analog chain is Pink Triangle Too w Funk Firm motor, Helius Orion arm with AN (Japan) silver wire, AN-S7 SUT.

 

I agree. IMHO Benz Micro Wood is the sweetspot in the Benz Micro model range as it sounds very similar compared to its bigger siblings Ruby Z and LP-S.

 

I would love to know what exactly you mean by this?

JG

 

A year ago or so I would have read this thread and thought you guys were absolutely nuts. As a value buyer I cringe at the costs thrown around for gear in these forums, but I get it. I feel now as though you can get really far into analog audio goodness with relatively little money, but I also understand the chase for that ethereal quality. The air around the figurative edges is what the big dollar purchases are about. I would struggle with value/dollar propositions involved, and at this point $300-500 for a cartridge is as far as I could stomach, but more than in the past I see how one falls down the rabbit hole.

 

I used to roll my eyes at magazines like Stereophile that refer to "very affordable" $2000 products, now I catch myself doing it all the time.

 

Loved the sound of the Ortofon SPU I've heard, my main worry was their high tracking forces and whether it would wear out vinyl. If they can get SPU sound with a lighter tracking cartridge and more modern stylus profile that would be amazing and if I were still into vinyl could see myself also being interested in such a thing.

 

The standard rebuttal to this is if SPUs/high VTF cartridges tore up records, there wouldn't be any playable 50's jazz albums left today. I believe its all relative to compliance - a high compliance cart with too much VTF will damage a record, a low compliance cartridge set to too low VTF is also problematic, but I think a low compliance cartridge set to the proper tracking force is fine.

 

About seven years ago I bought a Linn Akiva (along with a Linto phonostage). Even I thought I was a bit nuts. But the instant I started to listen at home I knew I made the right choice. It really changed the way I listen to music at home and audio gear in general.

 

Obviously all cartridges are colored vs electronics as are speakers because cartridges and speakers are having to do things outside the electrical realm either transforming the groove to an electrical impulse or the electrical impulse to a sound wave. Having had over the years cartridges ranging from moderately expensive (ZYX , MicroBenz, Clearaudio up to $2k) down to Shure V15Vs my experience agrees with some other posters here that stylus profile is extremely important as a sonic factor apart from the usual MC vs MM/MI divide. Some of the cost is ,as Warren says, due to extremely low production numbers and some is just gamesmanship.

I agree that these older cartridges really can be transformed by new cantilevers and styluses. What is interesting is how difficult it has been to improve on old designs in most aspects of audio systems. The problem with the older systems was not in the basic design but the inferior manufacturing processes and tolerances available then.

 

Yep. I do remember your rather strong opinions about how nobody should ever spend X amount of money on a cart or else it's crazy... but experiencing it is enough to convince people.

A couple of years ago, I would have thought it crazy to spend 2K on a phono stage. Or a cart. And yet...

 

In my experience it is very difficult to finds 50s jazz pressings that aren't groove worn. This is from my own purchasing (50s and 60s are my favorite eras of jazz and jazz is my second favorite genre of music) and a friend who has a substantial Prestige, Blue Note, Savoy, Verve collection from the 50s. Even pristine looking records that only have a few spindle trails often exhibit groove wear. And I don't mean surface noise, I am talking about the distortion that occurs from wearing down a groove wall.

Best explanation here: Groove Wear: The Elephant in the Record Store

 

@2xUeL wrote that article, have to make a new post to tag him for the notification!

 

I have been running a Lyra Delos for about 2 yrs now and dearly love the sound I get from my analog end. I have a AT-OC9ML/II which I consider a very good to excellent cartridge for the money, when I swap that one in I do miss the Delos, but that price delta is pretty huge. When time comes I might look at the Koetsu Black or Lyra Kleos. But honestly I have zero desire to spend more than $2500.00, I may just stick with the Delos.
My main issue is a cartridge/stylus that treats my records with care and minimal to no surface wear.

For those that wonder about the price, my only reason for spending close to $2k for a cartridge is I have made the decision to invest most of my audio gear money into my analog, rather than into digital. I am 95% vinyl listening, I actually moved my CDP out of my main system.

I really enjoy the design of Lyra and what JCarr does for them.

 

I think there's a lot of speculation vs. fact there, but I agree with the essential point that grooves are damaged by poorly configured equipment. Putting aside the cartridges themselves, there were some odd tonearms in those days. And how did people even know what their tracking force was? I doubt even things like the fiddly Shure balance beam scale was in any widespread use back in those days. So in other words, how do we know groove wear was done via an SPU operating within the recommended VTF range, on a properly configured tonearm, and definitely without any pennies taped to it? Heck, how do we know the groove wear wasn't caused by a refined and civilized cartridge meant to track at 1.5g that was actually at much more or less then that because the owner relied on the numbers on the counterweight?

 

(From the bottom of the rabbit hole) I just spent over $5K for a box of very nice parts and a few sheets of 3/4" baltic birch to build my own speakers! I never would have seen that one coming a couple of years ago.