What's with eBay record sellers? (rant)

Ooh, I hate clichés. Didn't realize I was starting a thread about one - thanks for the heads up! Looks like there are a few others who are taking part in the discussion so it can't be that bad, can it?

 

You lost me at VG+

Never buy anything with a VG+ rating unless you know the seller personally.

 

That's a tough one. In that scenario, I almost always leave no feedback at all.

 

Look on the bright side - after it's all over, you'll probably have enough posts to start the next one in Marketplace Discussions.

 

This came up on one of these other similar threads (one poster, as I recall, would give negative feedback right away without even contacting the seller - then wait for the seller to negotiate).

As a sometimes seller and a buyer, my general rule of thumb is as follows:

- Seller gives a full refund / I don't need to return the item = positive feedback. That's called good CS and should be rewarded.
- Seller gives partial refund or has to be strongarmed to give a refund = gray area. Usually I'll just not give any feedback at all. I won't give negative feedback and I've considered neutral feedback, but again it's on a case-by-case basis. If the seller is being a PITA then a neutral rating is very possible.
- Seller doesn't respond at all or does the "no refunds / no returns" = a warning that I will give negative feedback and then, after a few days time if no response, I follow through and may also open a case depending on how much $ we're talking about.

I don't agree with the "give neutral feedback so the next guy knows" mentality though (especially if the seller refunds you), as it assumes that the seller made a mistake on purpose and just hopes that most people don't complain. It is possible that the seller made an honest mistake so I have to give the benefit of the doubt unless I have pretty clear evidence to the contrary.

 

It varies. I don't express my sentiment in exactly the same way I did in my above comment. Afterall, I do want the seller to cooperate with me. Usually, the response is at least polite and its obvious they took the time to read my message. I've never had anyone get nasty about it and some even seem to appreciate the feedback.

 

If we can discourage just one person from shopping on eBay, it will be worth it.

 

Exactly - if you leave a neutral or a negative after a full refund, that would be a #$@k move, no question about it. You can note something in the little seller star rating thing ("item as described") instead.

 

personally i think people aren't getting how hard it is to make a buck selling records on ebay.. yes there are dick sellers but there are also the dick customers angling for a partial refund holding the seller by the balls....

i'm not a professional record seller but have sold a few.. i find it is so much work to even just list the records and invariably you get the dickheads saying they will offer you such and such even though its on buy it at now without offer option.. i love those "I'll give you $30 right now!" (for a $60 listed).. ha ha... then there are the super anal record collector freaks that start asking you a bunch of questions even though youv'e listed the grading.. then the guys who argue about how a record is not worth what you're asking.. WTF???

i tell you... selling records on ebay is a huge drag for the ocassional seller as myself..also people assume because you're selling a record or two for $19.99 that that is your fulltime occupation or something? very strange..

 

you know there's a decent chance those guys are members here, right?

 

I buy a lot of stuff on eBay, though I'm trying to buy more from discogs - I just have a problem with the shipping fees I'm seeing from many discogs sellers, particularly those in Europe. 18.50 euro to ship one LP? I don't think that is remotely fair or reasonable, but I see that price often. I've found that eBay sellers *usually* have far more reasonable shipping charges (except those from Australia - good grief).

I've been buying on eBay since 1999, and have a great many purchases I've been thrilled with. Only two LP purchases really stand out in my memory as leaving me dissatisfied; one was a 12" single, poorly packed which resulted in a drop of sleeve condition from a nice NM to what I consider "not worth it". All four corners bent - nay, CREASED sharply. I wrote the seller and suggested that he use sturdier packaging, but I still left positive feedback although I didn't necessarily want to. He replied with "Point taken" which I found a bit snarky, and I'm sure he's still shipping in the same cereal-box-quality cardboard envelopes.

The other was an LP shipped from Japan. It was well packaged, shipped quickly, the sleeve and insert are pristine, but the vinyl was definitely not 'Excellent" as described. It had what looked like drips of melted white plastic in two places on the same side which have fused with the vinyl, both affecting playback with loud popping sounds. The rest of the album sounds incredible, but two songs are prety much ruined. I was torn over this, and ultimately I chose to not leave any feedback.

I feel like negative feedback should be reserved for the worst cases, and I guess these two weren't bad enough to me to warrant it.

 

Some interesting experiences. As an occasional Ebay seller I have gotten a few positive comments that say something like "finally an honest grader". As an Ebay buyer this rather surprised me as I have had very few negative experiences. One caveat is that about half the purchases were for classical LPs which tend to be in better condition. Still, I have had very few bad experiences. Am I doing something different than other people? Here are my decision points:

1. Is it a Beatles, Rolling Stones or Doors LP? If so, don't buy anything for significant money without deadwax info and playgrade. Even then be very careful.
2. Is it an older, rarer LP? Prepare to pay more for a quiet and reasonably unblemished copy. Realize that a cheaper copy is likely got a reason. It is okay to take a chance when it's less than $10 if you have a vibe about it and are prepared to toss it if you are wrong.
3. Read the description. ALL the description. Look for the hedging, the weasel words, the "I don't know much about vinyl" spiel.
4. Look at the feedback without making it too big a deal unless they have 100%. Most vendors have good feedback or Ebay bounces them. However most people never complain with bad feedback when they have been duped. The reason is they are probably afraid of retaliation by the vendor without realizing they can complain about that to Ebay Customer service.
5. When you find a trustworthy Ebay seller look through their other items to see if they have anything else you are looking for.

Hope this helps.

 

A postscript to my previous message. Prefer those sellers who provide a picture of the label. Look very carefully at the spindle hole area as this can reveal wear that may not be associated with scratches etc. This can lead to the feared inner groove wear. As for the VG+ rating that another poster cautioned about, I mostly agree that these can often have issues but there is a complication. Ebay sellers have gotten grief about NM kind of ratings so their saying VG+ or VG++ can be a hedge against minor visual imperfections or an isolated pop or click inevitable on most older LPs. It just depends how clear the description is. Be wary about sellers who just give a rating and then refer you to their boiler plate grading system.

 

Here's a picture of a copy of Bang Tango's "Psycho Cafe" I ordered last year, was listed as both vinyl and cover = M- (Mint Minus)



What would YOU grade that visually, just from a feckin' picture? I had a copy of Houses of the Holy in similar condition, M-, and James' "Seven" from the UK and I was determined not to pay return postage so I did a Paypal complaint and got all my money back and chucked it in the bin, which is where this copy of Psycho Cafe ended up after the seller fully refunded my money and told me to keep it. Don't waste my time, take 2 seconds to hold each side up in a good light, you'll know right away if it at least visually matches what you're grading it as.

 

I have asked for partial refunds in the past, if the LP wasn't as advertised and I still want to keep it. I don't see anything wrong with it. If the seller refuses, then I send the album back to the seller.

To be honest, I've had it happen to me a few times on this forum, where the buyer disageed with my grading. I have given partial refunds or took the LP back for a full refund.

I just recently received The Kinks "Black Album" The seller said the records were VG++. They play ok, but the seller failed to mention that both records were warped. I am going to ask for a partial refund.

 

No. If the seller tries to make it right, I will not give negative feedback. I probably will give no feedback, but not negative.

 

I can't decide if eBay or PayPal is worse. I'll say two-way tie for last.

 

good rules of thumb on eBay:
1. Don't have super high expectations, especially for vinyl from the 50's, 60's and 70's
2. Don't pay big $$ for opened LPs, unless the seller has a rich history of selling mint vinyl.
3. Don't discount VG condition -- it often plays NM with a nice cleaning. And you will get it for much less than NM.
4. If the cover looks nice in the photo the vinyl will usually be nice to match.
5. Bid low on many of the same title. you will be surprised what you get for a few bucks.
6. Resist the urge to buy Beatles or Led Zep vinyl on eBay unless #2. Everybody on eBay thinks those albums are worth a fortune.

 

Being in Oz is no fun for trying to buy or sell anything international. High postage costs both ways and then a small domestic market too. Have mercy....

 

Lately, I have been getting some really nice albums on Ebay. I've also bought my fair share of duds.

There are several sellers that I no longer associate with. I used to buy from the seller who was formerly known as Bright Field Music. I think he now goes by the handle Parlophone or something like that. I don't know if he is still active, but his auctions, which were mostly UK Beatles albums, were out of control. His items went for big bucks. The last 4-5 records that I purchased from him were overgraded and he claimed to play grade them. He used descriptions such as "the album was carefully played on good equipment". When you see comments like that, run for the hills. That means, the record was played a lot and is probably worn.

Another seller, Geesdee (who is UK based) has items that aslo sell for major bucks. His descriptions are way too long. 95% is total fluff and then you have to dig through the garbage to get the grading. I'm glad that my UK Beatles collection is complete. It feels nice to buy an Allman Brothers LP for $15!

 

From a former Ebay seller:
I used to sell on Ebay but I quit because of people bidding on records and not reading the listings and switching records. When I sold a copy of Traffic's "Heaven Is In Your Mind" with the black UA label for $150 to some guy who bid on it thinking he won a mint LP and cover when the discription said "VG++ record/VG+ cover. This guy was calling me all day crying "you're not going to rip me off?" while filling my inbox with harassing e-mails. Meanwhile a mono copy of The Velvet Underground & Nico comes back to my house with a different cover and record from what I sent out. The guy who bought the Velvets LP was calling me every name in the book and was threatening to turn me into safe harbor and have me kicked off for "riping me off and misleading the Ebay community". This clown had a feedback listing of 20 something and I had 1000 positives at the time, he got the heave-ho for the switcheroo. After all that I cound't do it anymore.

Now (at work) I have to deal with Ebay sellers who will sell anything including things they know nothing about, like records to make a quick buck. I made the mistake of mentioning to one that "I used to sell records on Ebay" and now they all flock to me asking "which ones should I buy to turn over", I just don't have the heart to do it.

Why?

Because they don't know a thing about grading a LP and cover, I don't want to people to get ripped off.
You can tell the listings by LP collectors/dealers and Ebay sellers apart, since one gives a discripive listing and uses the Mint----poor Goldmine grading system, where the other will use "There are marks and scatches on the Album! Not sure how the album play since I no longer have a turntable" and (my favorite) "CONDITION - DINGS, LINES, DENTS AND MARKS - EDGING - CORNER DENTS - BENDS - SHOWS A LOT OF WEAR - DISCOLORATION"for their discriptions.

So my friends....
Buy from stores, respectable venders with good feedback who use the Goldmine grading system.

 

I'm always suspicious of the EX grading. I've only bought a few LPs from Ebay because of this risk.

 

I got burnt, hard, from a shipment of records from Japan about 8 or 9 years ago. I stopped buying records off ebay after that unless I knew the seller. Ebay opened up doors to noobs who have no clue how to grade and have even less of a clue as how to properly pack a record.

 

In a situation like that, you cannot give an overall grade for a record. If I have a record like that, I grade it track by track and then let the prospective buyers decide. Again, I would rather under grade and have a happy buyer. I do this as a hobby, and I don't need the hassle of a disgruntled purchaser. Feedback that says "better than described" is music to my ears.

 

so much of this stuff being written flies in the face of my experience with ebay over more than a thousand record purchases

things definitely improved once they changed the feedback system a few years ago but since then i am more likely to get records in better condition than graded than i am to get them in worse condition.