When does a ‘new’ band member become a ‘real’ band member?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ricky Lampoon, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. Jay_Z

    Jay_Z Forum Resident

    Smith is mainly because no one ever heard of him. He replaced someone who was a member (Felder.) When Vince Gill and Deacon Frey came in they were considered full members because people had heard of the one and lineage for the other.
  2. tralfaz812

    tralfaz812 Active Member

    To me, it all boils down to does the new member make the band better? Case in point: Styx. First four LPs on Wooden Nickel and Equinox are great LPs. Bye bye John Curulewski, hello Tommy Shaw. This may be contrary to majority opinion but despite some great moments early on, the Tommy Shaw Styx is inferior to pre Tommy Shaw Styx. Crystal Ball stinks but Grand Illusion is great. Subsequent releases are inconsistent at best.

    Santana is another example. The first 3 LPs are fantastic. A lot of good to very good stuff came after but nothing ever came close to the first 3.

    Van Halen went down hill after Diamond Dave left. Blackmore's Rainbow was never the same after Ronnie James Padavona, er, Dio left. Classic Yes is Anderson, Bruford, Squire, Howe and Wakeman. Not the first lineup but the best. All later lineups never came close.

    Mark I Deep Purple was pretty good but Mark II was better. Most people prefer Mark II over Mark I and I do as well. To me, there is no Deep Purple after Blackmore, Gillan, Paice, Lord and Glover. All subsequent DP lineups did not make them better.

    I guess I'm saying I've never accepted Tommy Shaw as a member of Styx, never accepted Patrick Moraz, Trevor Horn, Geoff Downes and Alan White as members of Yes. David Coverdale, ugh! Van Hagar, no thanks.

    I'm sure most fans if not all never accepted Mike Reno, then known as Michael Rynoski, as a member of Moxy. I sure don't.
  3. Jonny W

    Jonny W Forum Resident

    Orangeburg NY
    It's high time he was pictured on their album covers and in group photos.
    It's borderline insulting that he's not, considering how long he's served.
    Ricky Lampoon and Zoot Marimba like this.
  4. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    This canard always pops up and is simply not true - Avery was a great contributor to Jane’s but if you’re picking out a single musical ‘soul’ or author of the ‘best melodies’, then Perry Farrell clearly was the heart of the band. Navarro / Avery / Perkins all important too.
  5. sixtiesstereo

    sixtiesstereo Senior Member

    You of course are correct and I had forgotten about that. And there Bruce is with Dennis
    at the piano.
    Lost In The Flood likes this.
  6. Oh Perry is my #2 frontman after David Lee Roth. Amazing entertainer for sure. I’d agree that he’s the heart of the band. But listening to any Porno for Pyros album shows that he wasn’t the melodic one. Musically, they built those songs on Avery’s baselines.
    markreed likes this.
  7. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Alexandria VA

    Also, with such an important member gone, Eagles likely felt more of a need to show the "replacements".

    Felder wasn't a "famous face" with Eagles, so less need to replace him in the photo.

    They still had 4 other dudes - dudes people recognized more.
  8. markreed

    markreed Forum Resident

    Eric and Perry were the first two members of the band and Jane's played a number of gigs before Navarro and Perkins came on board. Eric's bass drives those early songs in a way that the post Eric songs definitely don't : "Up The Beach", "Three Days", "Mountain Song", etc etc., all have bass lines that sounds like lead guitar riffs. After Chaney came on board to Jane's the bass no longer lead the song, but followed.
  9. markreed

    markreed Forum Resident

    I heard that Ronnie mentioned to Keith in 1993 something like "I've been on a salary for 20 years, am I actually in the band?" and the response was that they had probably sort of forgotten he wasn't, so they made him a full member of the band.

    That said, I know of bands where one member who has been in the band 25+ years doesn't want to be a full member of the band because of the responsibility and liabilities (he joined not long after the band had become megasuccessful), so legally is a consultant who is paid for his work rather than be a substantive legal member. Though he is in all the photos, shows, albums, and so on.
    Oatsdad likes this.
  10. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    Thanks! Take the point - but I’d credit Navarro and Avery equally - yes there are defining bass lines, but also superb guitar parts and frankly, also interesting percussion from Perkins. I don’t know that I’d elevate the bass above the otters.

    I actually love the PFP albums, and (for me) they’re the evidence of the opposite- that the unique hooks and vibe that largely define Jane’s in my ears DO come primarily from Farrell (in as much as the vocal melodies are his, of course).

    The first PFP album can take a couple of spins before it pulls you in, but Good God’s iUrge is gentle bliss straight off - a mesmeric album.

    Two of Diamonds likes this.
  11. aravel

    aravel starchitect...then, father!

    GDL - MEX
    This reminds me that Bon Jovi added Hugh McDonald as an official member just in time for the Hall Of Fame Induction. He has been there since 1995 and some claim that he played Alec John Such in studio recordings
  12. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    I’d agree with all of that.

    But I still couldn’t put Avery above Farrell as the ‘true soul’ of the band - which was the original point, very often made, I was challenging.

    I understand why it’s made - although Strays and The Great Escape are terrific late period albums, they are clearly lesser than what came before and Avery is the one change.

    So I’d agree Avery made a crucial contribution, but the reality is that I can’t think of a single rock band (bar the Royal Blood, which is a bass guitar and drums duo, or maybe pre-Californication Red Hot Chili Peppers) where the bass is ever ‘the true soul’ musically. .

    I may be missing some.
  13. Zeroninety

    Zeroninety Forum Resident

    Some might disagree, but Chris Squire's bass was absolutely the soul of Yes, IMO.
    KDubATX, Scott222C and Alternative4 like this.
  14. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    Sure - not familiar with Yes’ music - as I said, I may be missing some, and perhaps there others
  15. Scott222C

    Scott222C Loner, Rebel & Family Man

  16. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    I take that to mean being a part-owner of the enterprise. And for that there's no single answer. Many legacy bands never bring on board a new band member in that capacity - he or she might be part of the visual image and presentation but in essence a hired hand.
  17. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    Good shout - agree - keep em coming - I can see I’ll have my a** handed back to me on this one ;)
  18. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    United Kingdom
    I'm sure others may have commented. Rick was out for The Final Cut, then when the band made Momentary Lapse he was advised not to rejoin, so was credited as a session musician and not included in the group photo. Once the legal dispute was settled and Pink Floyd (1987) became a legal entity, he rejoined and was included as a member in the credits to the Live in Venice film. Retrospectively he was added to the credits and band photo of the Momentary Lapse reissue as a band member - certainly from 2011 onwards.
    6stringer likes this.
  19. Jmac1979

    Jmac1979 Forum Resident

    Louisville, KY
    I think with Hugh, it was also an image thing as he always had close cropped hair and was a good ten years older than the other members. When younger, he simply didnt fit the visual aesthetic of Bon Jovi, now that they're all older, he doesn't stand out as much
    aravel likes this.
  20. KDubATX

    KDubATX A Darby Man Never Says When

    Motörhead for one
    markreed, Dudley Morris and Amnion like this.
  21. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    United Kingdom
    I'm pretty sure that Schmidt and Walsh were official members of the Eagles when they came back post Hell Freezes Over. It's just that Glenn Frey and Don Henley got a double slice of the pie in the subsequent contract. (I'm going by what Frey said in the History of the Eagles doc, but it's a couple of years since I watched it.)
  22. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    United Kingdom
  23. That was my understanding - that he played, at least in part, on every BJ album, and that Such was essentially around for onstage posing.
  24. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Forum Resident

    Louisville, KY
  25. BackScratcher

    BackScratcher Forum Resident

    I suspect The Rolling Stones Corporate Entity has some contractual terms with Darryl that he's not an official member of the band no matter how long he's been playing and touring with them. (I hope he's well paid, though.)
    Mickey2 likes this.

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