When the label won't release the CD

Yep, I was an indie label punk rock kid in the ‘90s, and every single album from those labels was released on LP (for a lower sale price than the CD of the same album), and there were a lot of 7” and 10” records, too.

 

It's just so cheap to make CDs - it's just impossible for me to buy the "not economically viable" argument. I have run a label for close to 27 years, producing CDs from day 1 until today, and although I start with a smaller run of CDs with each new release, it is only about $900 to manufacture 300 CDs in a mini-LP sleeve with shrink wrap, or about $1100 for plastic jewel cases. You only need to sell 80-90 CDs to make that money back. I'm sorry, but any band or label that says it's not economically viable is saying they don't have enough faith in their band or artist to sell 90 CDs.

 

Is the profit from a run of 300 CDs really worthwhile, though? This reads to me like you’d be making $2500 if you sell them all. I guess it’s not necessarily a losing money thing as it is about selling enough for the profit margin to make it worth doing.

 

I just looked at your labels recent releases on discogs. Specifically the statistics. Most of them say 5 or so people have them in their collections, and 0-1 have them on their want lists. Doesn’t seem like very high demand on something you’re investing in 300 copies of.

Are these artists recording for free? Do you have a graphic designer that works pro bono?

 

Of course that’s not taking into account studio time for recording and mastering, graphic designs, etc.

 

Even if you DIY that stuff, the time involved… $2500, as an example profit margin, doesn’t seem like much money in this context.

 

Exactly. Bandcamp is far more profitable when an artist has a fanbase.

 

Records cost far more upfront to manufacture but are pretty much guaranteed to sell eventually (often quickly, if the artist has an engaged fanbase) unless the album is a major flop.
For the genres in which they're unpopular CDs will likely sit in a box at the label offices for years and it doesn't seem like they're on any fast track to appreciate in value.

 

You are correct. The vinyl releases were much less, limited, and spread out. Most regular albums didn't get a record release. I actually have a couple of the record club country LPs and they have really went up in value. I remember a few times that fans and collectors bought up limited record releases like you describe and I've only seen pics online of some of the albums. I can't think of any records made by new artists in the 1990s that don't bring high prices these days. I did mean to say that certain vintage hip hop and rock CDs are bringing good prices now as well. This is based on my watching eBay and discogs sold prices and not by me selling anything.

 

I'm kind of amazed that anyone would use the Discogs "have/want" sections as a reliable means of gauging interest in or ownership of releases.

 

In the US CDs are toast. There is just so little interest. I know it’s hard to believe but I go to a local record store and they don’t even bother stocking new releases on CD. Everyone showing up Friday for new releases wants the vinyl.

I wish they carried more new releases on CD cause new LPs are three times as expensive.

 

I wasn't much into indie punk rock in the 1990s but I can remember hip hop still having vinyl releases. That wasn't surprising given the intertwined history of the genre and format. Club DJs and hip hop fans definitely kept vinyl alive long into the CD era in the US. Most of my new record purchases were rap and hip hop in the 1990s into the 2000s. I have some 7" and 12" European sourced vinyl that's in the Nu-metal and death metal?? styles. I'm not usually into those genres but the artwork is unique and the actual recordings are different enough from most of my other stuff (rock, hip hop, country, gospel, soul, blues, classical, jazz) that it was interesting.

 

Could you elaborate how? thx

 

One of my current regrets is not buying more of my music on vinyl at that time (an even bigger regret is subsequently losing all the vinyl I did have in my early 20s due to a really stupid life choice, but that’s another subject…). I bought almost exclusively CDs because, at that time, I could only afford to buy things once, and CD was what met my needs for portability — which kind of gets back on the topic of this thread, as CD was an ultimate format before more current technology came along and bettered one of its main advantages. Had streaming or even a free download of the album with purchase been something that existed at the time, though, I most likely would have bought all those albums on LP, saving a couple bucks in the process.

 

If a big part of your living was made by selling on discogs, you’d understand. It’s a very accurate gauge of releases that have demand and how much demand. When something comes up for sale, those who have it on their want list are alerted. There’s people that refresh their want page regularly thru the day to snag highly in demand items that rarely come up for sale.

The ‘have’ function is directly related to the whole ‘pride of ownership’ that physical media collectors have, in addition to the function cataloging their collections. It’s a very reliable metric, and one that’s used by many.

 

For me it's keeping track of the horde. I know what mastering/variant I have.
Wantlist- when I'm looking for promo's etc..

 

Sure. There’s a culture associated with Bandcamp, and listeners that use it understand that their money is often going directly to the artist with less of a middleman cut being taken out. So the listener, who is conscious of the ‘struggle’ of artists in the modern age, feels good about helping. It’s not unusual for listeners to use the ‘pay more’ function and tip the artist. In addition to that, merch can be sold thru the playform easily. The culture also spread wider thru the pandemic, as their 100% to the artist Bandcamp Fridays was a very smart bit of marketing.

I use it both ways. A few vinyl releases that my label has put out sold out their pressing very quickly thanks to Bandcamp and its reach. I’ve also put out Bandcamp exclusive tracks that fans snatch up. I also buy a lot of music there, and appreciate that it’s a possibility to do so.

But most importantly, an artist can release music without any investment in the price of physical media. If they are out there working live and building a fanbase (or establishing a fanbase on social media), people will want to be a part of their music thru Bandcamp and not think twice about buying a download.

 

Anecdotal, perhaps, but I've made way money more per release since I switched to the "name your price" model on Bandcamp. For every shameless cheapskate who buys a complete album for a buck (and there are many who do this), the people who overpay more than make up the difference.

 

I have to take issue with this. For major artists or those with a large, established fan base, this is often the case, but as anyone who works in music retail can tell you, LOTS AND LOTS of vinyl LPs go unsold, even by known artists, and even on titles that wouldn’t necessarily be called a “flop.” Sometimes they get marked down, sometimes they get bundled into grab bags, and sometimes they just get dumped, because they are non-returnable. Pressing something on vinyl is far from a guarantee of sales success.

 

That's why I don't mind all of the options available now. Music lovers have never had better options than they do today to explore all kinds of music and not be limited by the gatekeepers at the major labels.. The only problem now is time to enjoy the exploration. I wish youtube and streaming were around when I was a kid. Sorry for getting off track again but it is an amazing thing when one thinks about it.

 

That really isn't all that "off-track" here. Last year I downloaded all the tracks from three different albums that were just released.
And, eventually, I bought all three of them. On CD.

 

Well the original post was asking why labels won't release a CD when they are releasing the music in other formats. So that assumes that the label and band are making money with the other non-CD formats and streaming. Most of the artwork would already be in place as well - I've released many CDs that other labels have released as a vinyl LP - we've simply taken the front and back artwork of the LP, tweaked it a bit and shrunk it to the CD format. The recording of the music, and 95% of the graphic design have already been done - the only real additional cost is the manufacturing.

However, I have been fortunate over the years to work with bands that own their own recording studios, and in some cases there have been bands who have a band member that can do the artwork for them. for some reason there seems to be a lot of instrumental surf rock bands that have at least one graphic designer in the band - not sure why! Mainly though, I work with bands where music isn't their full-time job, as is the case with me - I have other work that I do besides the label. It also helps to release 6-8 new releases each year, and have a catalog that is now closing in on 100 releases. When the new stuff sells, along with the old stuff, I can kinda scrape by and have the funds to put out more new releases.

 

Someone said on a Beatles thread that CDs went the way of the Dodo. I help moderate a Beatles Facebook page with over 400K members and put it to a poll. Here was the results



As in life I allowed multiple choices. Totally unscientific but quite indicative of what's really going on; at least with Beatlefans.

 

More like Beatlefans are going the way of the dodo….


How anyone can think Beatlefans are indicative of current industry trends is beyond me!

 

This poll wasn't made to be shared here. It only shows that at least a section of the music buying population stills prefers CDs.