Which tubes should I get?

OK, so I´m new to tubes, finaly after so many years, a month ago I decided and I got my first tube amp. It´s a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium, with 4 EL 34´s and 6 12AU7´s, the ones that came with the amp, since I bought it new.

My system (it´s in my profile anyway, but just to make it easier for anyone who wants to help me) is:
Monitor Audio RX6 speakers
Technics 1200 MKII with Ortofon 2m Bronze
Oppo 105.

Even if I never before listened to my music so good and with that much detail, I feel I can improve it with some tube rolling. My amp can take kt88 and kt120´s instead of the el34´s.

I´m ok with the highs I get, very very pleased with the mids, but I´d like to get some more bass. Also I could exchange some of the higher mids for some more low mids. Before the Prima Luna I was listening with a Sansui 717, that was OK, but short on the highs and top end.

In your opinion, which of the other tubes my amp can take should I get in order to get close to the sound I want, if it were possible?

Please I live in Argentina so I´d like to stick to new stuff that is made nowadays, that is more affordable and easier to get and import.

I mostly listen to stuff like Beatles, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Miles Davis, and some progressive and heavy stuff as well.

So, I´d apreciate very much any suggestion I could get in order to keep improving my system, thanks in advance to anyone who could help me.

 

There is no answer to your question it's all try and see what you like
You can look on line and see what is available to you
I would just wear out what came in the amp before I started down the rabbit hole of rolling tubes
Best of luck with your new amplifier
Enjoy!
Michael

 

EL34’s will have the best midrange of them all.
KT’s will have a bit more highs and lows with a tad less midrange than the EL34’s.

For the music you listen too I would stick with the EL34’s. Now different current brands sound a bit different from each other so you could experiment with that.

The preamp tubes affect the sound more IMHO but you will need to experiment with diff brands of 12AU7’s. You can write to the manufacturer to see which preamp tube will affect the sound most to experiment with that one.

 

Look up Jim McShane - he sells tubes and is always helpful at recommending good tubes.

 

Amps being what they are, you really should look around the search results here for guys rolling your particular amp.


I found that the KT77 Gold Lions did wonders for the Bass through my Cayin - focusing it and helping a bit with the attack / immediacy of the Bass over the stock tube set.

Best of Luck.

 

There's a small section here that covers your amp specifically. In terms of the preamp tubes, it looks like the center 4 12AU7s are the ones to focus on. That might be a good place to start, to give yourself a little wider experience with the EL34s before swapping them out.

Edit: Center two tubes are the one's to try rolling. Apparently the outside 4 are drivers.

 

+1
Power tubes if in good health have less to do with final outcome than signal tubes, all things being equal, triode pentode and so on
If you feel you absolutely have to fool around with them buy from outfits like AES and the like and avoid paying the ridiculous audiophile approved mark ups
Just use honest vendors with a reasonable guarantee
I still stick with my original suggestion though!
; - )

 

So far no one thinks I should try with some KT88´s or KT120´s, but to stick to original stuff and/or swap the two middle center 12AU7´s. I can try that, it´s easier and cheaper. Just I will have to find out which ones would give me more bass, it it were possible

 

I've only run KT88s - in both 8 and currently 4 output tube configuration - absolutely no lack of bass/power. Then again I use Cornwalls.

 

No Cornwalls here but Monitor Audio rx6, that of course, are not much helpful in delivering low sounds.

 

I have the same integrated as you except mine is the HP version that uses 8 EL34 power tubes. I have rolled some different tubes in the preamp section that have really made a big difference in sound. My favorite combo is NOS Mullard CV4003's (12au7's) in the center two positions and NOS Brimar CV4003's in the remaining 4 positions. The Mullards took the brightness in top end down just slightly without giving up detail and the mids are to die for! I do have a few lp's that need a little extra air on top. When I plan on playing them I switch to ultra linear mode. With this integrated, I find the most noticeable difference between preamp tubes is when I listen in triode mode. Triode sounds the most natural to me, ymmv. I have not felt the need to mess around with the power tubes, perfectly happy with the stock EL34's.

 

Well, I always play it in ultra linear mode, I like how triode mode tames the highs that could be a little harshing sometimes, but I miss the dinamics ultra linear gives you, so I was expecting to get the tube that might do that in ultra linear mode.
I didn´t want to mess with NOS stuff because it´s not that easy when you don´t know much, particularly if you live where I live... I could get very used stuff, or even fake and I wouldn´t recognize it... But from what you are telling me that could do the trick, some Mullards, at least 2 for the middle spots...

 

I have no reference to your amp or speakers but for current production KT88 I have the SHUGUANG 50 year Treasure tubes. (I got a box of 4 'premium 'grade ).
A bit sharp to start with but great bass and smooth top after a few hours.

 

Stonegarden71 is it with records and cd's both?
I ordered the ProLogue Premium and will receive it in 2 days...so I'm curious with your experience..

 

It´s both actually. With my system, I slightly prefer CDs or above quality digital music to LPs, but there´s not much difference in quality or tonality between them in my opinion. Of course it depends on the version of each album mostly anyway.

Nice to read you´re about to get it, I´m sure you will enjoy your amp very much!!! I´d like to know if your opinion, even if different settings and even rooms might cause very different results

 

Sure I'll keep you posted here as I read about your journey.
This will be my First all tube integrated hope I made the right choice.My Rouge Audio Sphinx v2 has tube preamp class D amp and actually love the way it sounds so hopping its a great improvement..

 

Beat 12Au7s are CBS/Hytron 5814 or Pinnacle 13D5/12AU7 form England as shown on ebay.

 

You did. I'll be flabbergasted if you end up feeling otherwise.

 

American made 12AU7 NOS tubes are some of the more reasonably priced old stock tubes, relatively speaking. HiTest guitar has them for about what new Russian stuff costs.

 

The Tung-Sol EL34B seems to have better bass than most EL34 tubes. Not sure what your stock tubes are. These are my favorite current production EL34 for that reason. It was designed to marry the best of EL34 and 6L6.

 

Well, I have the el34´s that came with the amp, they are branded Prima Luna, but they don´t really make tubes, and everybody says they are shuguangs...

I could order Tung-Sol´s, they are not really that expensive, I could give them a try if they will improve the bass, thanks for your help

 

Keep in mind the 5814 is a low distortion 12AU7. The first 12AU7s were made by RCA. These tubes were first used in Collins radios. Collins complained to RCA the 12AU7s made too much distortion. RCA responded with the 5814 tube that is a 12AU7 replacement. Plate curves show the 12AU7 are rather poor with regard to linearity. So, when I recommend the CBS/Hytron 5814, that is due to it is a superior tube and you will certainly hear it. The Brimar 13D5 was linear to begin with.

 

It was a durability thing
http://frank.yueksel.org/sheets/049/5/5814A.pdf
For microphonics, the (A) variant
http://frank.yueksel.org/sheets/049/1/12AU7A.pdf

 

Tungsols EL34’s are more like 6L6’s. A bit more low end and high end sparkle.

 

My experience with modern day EL34's is that they don't have much in the way of midrange magic that you always hear about people talking about for EL34's. The old tubes did, but the newer ones, not so much.

This is what used to be, not what it is today.

Personally I like modern KT88's and prefer them to either EL34's or KT-120, both are at either end of the spectrum.

Honestly you do not have to get exotic tubes. I have a dozen tube amplifier's. My largest are the Rogue M-150 monoblock's, which have four KT88's in each of them and will do 150-WPC in the ultralinear mode or 75-WPC in the triode mode.

Before that, I had the Rogue M-120 monoblock's, which I purchased used, off of eBay. Later I upgraded them to the M-150's.

I had the option to have upgraded them to the M-180's, but I prefer the sound of the KT88's over the KT-120's.

The summer before last, I bought a KT88 based PrimaLuna Prologue Five. It runs the KT88 tubes really easy. They sound better and last longer this way.

It has the stock PL KT88's that you can order from Upscale Audio, the US dealer, they only run about $40 each and sound fine.

If you don't want to get into expensive tubes, you really don't have too.

The KT88's will give you the same or even better midrange than most new manufacture EL34's, but with a whole lot more balanced deep, strong bass.

I used this amp on my vintage Altec Lansing A7's theater speaker's. I use only tube amplification on them.

Up to that point, I felt that the PL with its stock KT88's was the nicest sounding tube amplifier that I had used on the A7's. I was totally pleased!

I only took off the PL Five, because I bought three other tube amplifier's this year.

I bought an ALK (Audio Note Kit) amp from another member, that had been professionally assembled. it is their EL34 based L4. When I bought it, It did have modern EL34 tubes in it and it had a good deal of bass also. This did come as a surprise to me.

Now, I know that you said that you didn't want to get into NOS tubes, but as has been mentioned before, there are plenty of the smaller signal tubes, like the 12AU7's which are plentiful and not very expensive.

Small signal tubes can make a big difference (bad and good) to the sound of your amplifier. The good thing is that they last a really long time. If you are purchasing NOS tubes, they will last probably at least three times longer and maybe five times longer, so NOS tubes are a good investment.

Now, except with power amps or integrated's which use smaller power tubes like the EL84's, you mostly are not going to be able to cost justify buying larger NOS power tubes like KT88's, as they are way too expensive.

At the recommendation of the forum member that I bought the ANK L4 from, I bought some NOS RFT tubes from an eBay seller in Germany. These cost less than $300 for the quad of NOS EL34's.

I have to tell you, that these NOS EL34's are way worth it. Being REAL NOS El34's, they DO have that MAGIC midrange that you hear that EL34's have. And the amount of bass that they produce is almost stupid! El34's are not known for producing a lot of bass, but these DO!

Again, you can't even afford to buy most any large NOS power tube. Here is a almost unique case where you can cost justify doing so. For only about $30 more per tube, you can afford to buy these NOS tubes. They will give you everything that you might expect from NOS tubes and even more in the bass department.

Since these NOS tubes are likely to last at least twice as long as modern day manufactured tubes, they are a very cost efficient way to get excellent sounding NOS power tubes for your PL.

I wouldn't recommend spending a lot of money buying expensive, exotic modern manufacture KT88 power tubes. Not because they don't sound good, they probably sound excellent, but they are both uber expensive and their price is hard to justify, being that they are not going to last you like a real NOS tube will.

As has been mentioned, KT77's are a nice sounding modern day power tube. I have them in a Line Magnetic 211iA, that I purchased earlier this year. They do sound better than most modern day EL34's and have better, more balanced bass.

The last amp that I acquired this year is a 22-Watt 845 based SET Line Magnetic 518iA. It is the best amplifier that I have ever had running the Altec A7's.

However, for what ever reason, I decided to dig out a small 3.9 Watt Decware Mini Torii dual mono amplifier to see how it sounded against the LM 518iA. when I powered it up, I discvered that one of the 6V6GT power tubes, a JJ, was bad.

As it happened, I had a pair of modern manufacture Tung Sol's avaiable, so I stuck them in the amp. I had alsomst immediately forgotten that I had just put in a new pair of power tubes and I was way underwhelmed, when I powered it up. It was thin sounding and had not "body" so it.

Funny, I had remembered it sounding better? As I let it run for a while, streaming music through it. The tubes broke in and I could not believe the beautiful sound that I was hearing out of this amp, for the first time.

The amp was not bad before, it did sound very nice, but I guess that it just didn't really grab me, so it had sat on a shelf for the last couple of years.

No longer, I put the LM518iA back on the shelf and have now been listening to this Mini Torii for the past couple of months.

This also is a tube amplifier that operates in class "A", but instead of it being a SET, it is an SEP, which stands for Single Ended Pentode.

Now a 3.9-Watt amplifier is not going to be much use to the average individual who has typical tower speakers that run around 90 dB efficiency. The Altec A7's are about 10 dB more efficient and can be driven nicely by this SEP amp.

I mention this to you, because modern manufacture Tung Sol tubes have been recommended to you.

While I have not listened to their EL34's, I am now really impressed with these modern tubes!

They might be worth considering also...