Who is happy with just 'bookshelf' loudspeakers?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by felix.scerri, Jan 25, 2014.

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  1. noladaoh

    noladaoh Retired

    Location:
    Arkansas
    I went from Legacy Classics to Epos Epic 2. While I enjoyed the Classics which are very lively and easy to drive, the Epics sound more natural. I have an SVS sub to add a touch to the bottom. Couldn't be happier. I use a Creek integrated, Kimber 8TC speaker cables, Audioquest Ruby interconnects, Channel Islands Audio DAC, and a Macbook Pro feeding lossless files. My goal is to upgrade to Harbeths.
     
  2. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Your room is the same size as mine. Tight space, isn't it?

    Is your system along the longer wall? Looks like you have a nice view up there too.
     
  3. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I'm not familiar with the Richter name, but it's nice to see that there are Australian brands available!
     
  4. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    Poor reviews? Everything I've read about the SS-B3000 has been positive. I have some of the other speakers in that range (SS-F6000, SS-B1000, whatever the center is) and they are terrific.
     
  5. Sandy8

    Sandy8 Active Member

    Location:
    Squamish BC Canada
    My system is set up along the short wall actually. Wide angle lens makes it look wider than 9 feet i think. Did some measuring and the room is 2 feet longer than the 12 i thought. Still pretty small though. We do have a bit of a nice view here. I've posted a pic here in the past with our view of the mountains and water...:)
     
  6. Yovra

    Yovra Collector of Beatles Threads

    I have two fine Dynaudio speakers; it's quite a small listening space. I'm quite happy with them, could add a sub in the future.
     
  7. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Oh yes, I remember that photo! :righton:
     
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  8. Corey Louis

    Corey Louis Active Member

    As a college student, bookshelf speakers is the only option in the tight space of a dorm room (I can't even fit a decent sub), but I bought the Focal 807v's back in October and the bass response is quite good, better than I expected (as 2 University PD noise complaints can attest, I guess playing "Live Bullet" late at 2 am isn't the best idea either), a great speaker for less than $1,000 and for my space constraints, Focal 807v Review: http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1107focus
     
  9. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Zu Omens on Ebay! I want want want! Save me!
     
  10. ncblue

    ncblue Well-Known Member

    Location:
    OBX, NC USA
    Get em. You'll love the Zu's
     
  11. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Omen book shelf in black...
     
  12. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    SVS subs.... good. Creek integrated.... good. Epic 2's..... good.

    That's a nice little system there. If I were looking for upgrades I'd look at the C.I. DAC first (I'm just saying).

    Don't be in a big rush to get Harbeths. Sure, they're better and real good. But you have a nice system.

    PS: Skylan stands for the Epics if you don't have a pair already. :)
     
    dhoffa85 likes this.
  13. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    What I miss about bookshelf speakers is the acoustically suspended woofer, closed box with no port. This design works only for larger bookshelf speakers. The bass is usually rolled off a bit, but its slope very gradual. Since the bass rolloff is gradual, not sharply cut off as ported designs are, the lowest octaves can be reproduced with a little EQ help. I know "EQ" is a dirty word in audiophile circles, but overall the bass from let's say a large Advent, or AR 3a or a very modest Pioneer CS66 or CS31 will be tight, with enough kick drum to feel in a medium sized room. The bass may need just a little help, maybe 4 to 5 dB below 50 cycles, but they require no sub to hit hard.

    The treble from larger vintage bookshelf speakers often leaves some to be desired, sometimes harsh, most will be colored. On the plus side, the crossover points were often higher than contemporary speakers. For example, the squawker mids were fast enough to align nicely with cone type tweeters, so despite their tendency to be colored, were low distortion, highly detailed and super fast.

    I am a speaker builder/ hobbyist, so maybe I'll build a nice 2 1/2 way CB large bookshelf, ie: 22 x 11 x 13, at or close to the "golden ratio", with a 2 inch full range driver as a mid/tweeter, and maybe a .75 inch super-tweeter. I love ribbons, but not efficient enough to keep up with a highly efficient woofer in a properly aligned closed box. One of the key factors in great bass response is the type and amount and distribution of acoustic damping material inside the box. When it's right, the bass these guys can reproduce can be impressive and deadly accurate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
    Doug G. likes this.
  14. Doug G.

    Doug G. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, MN USA
    Well, reproduction of music is always a compromise, of some sort, but if a recording has deep bass in it and the reproduction system doesn't reproduce it, it isn't really high fidelity or even trying to be. The goal is to hear all frequency ranges and not zero in on a particular range to the neglect of others.

    Doug
     
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  15. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    This discussion really hinges on room size: in my room (approximately 15' x 18'), most floor standers bloat the bass. My current standmounts (I'd never stick 'em on a shelf) are appropriate for the room size, and provide sufficient bass and 'scale' for the music.
     
  16. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Of course this is debatable as some very high fidelity transducers (fostex, Lowthar) specialize in the midrange octaves especially those centered around the human voice in its wondrous variety. And monitor fans like me own "sub woofers" to cover the lowest octaves.
     
  17. Doug G.

    Doug G. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, MN USA
    Well, I did say "reproduction system"

    :D

    Doug
     
  18. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    He did.
     
  19. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    The famous Revel M20's were listed in Stereophile as class A restricted . They were the first speaker anywhere near there price to be awarded such an accolade .
    Low frequency extension was flat to 46 Hz , -10 db at 33 Hz .
     
  20. noladaoh

    noladaoh Retired

    Location:
    Arkansas
    Have you heard the CI Audio DAC. Very highly reviewed and no digititus. No need to upgrade.
     
  21. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    If a tiny % of frequencies on rock/jazz/classical are missing (so as to not ruin everything else) but everything above 50hz is reproduced exceedingly well, then that isn't hi fidelity? Yet getting a little more frequency range but none of it reproduced exceptionally is? My guess is that you'd be surprised what mids and highs will sound like as gear gets better. Proper bass for an exceptional hi-end system will be very, very expensive to do right. You have chosen a major compromise and I have accepted the typical audiophile compromise. If one is going to be considered hi-fi, then I'm rather certain as to which it will be.
     
  22. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    A high fidelity speaker system with a -3 db cut off point at 50 hz will still reproduce deep bass below that. In a ported system, maybe to 40 Hz, at -10 dB, a sealed cabinet maybe 30 Hz at the -10 dB point. Speaker placement can make up for that, and/or careful EQ adjustment to room and the speaker's bass response. If a listener prefers jazz , then a speaker that does exceptionally well at frequencies above 50 hz is by all means a great choice, and more satisfying than a lesser speaker.

    All this in perspective to subjective human ears, a -3 dB drop in bass is barely perceptible. Subjective perception of half volume is about a 9 dB drop, give or take a little. So, even a 6 dB drop in bass at 40 cycles will still be very much a part of the music, and felt.

    I love bass extension, but I think there is no official definition of "high fidelity" as applied to a speaker's bass extension. Some poorly designed speakers have great low and hi freq extension, but awful sound everywhere between. I would say a speaker limited to 100z- 8,000 cycles is not high fidelity. However, back in the late 50's a full range speaker extending from 55 cycles to 12K was considered excellent. To this day Altec 804's in that range are highly regarded, and are high fidelity speakers.
     
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  23. Doug G.

    Doug G. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, MN USA
    Well, by golly, I guess you just have infinitely superior audiophile accumen than I.

    Doug
     
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  24. bamaaudio

    bamaaudio Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I've been using bookshelf sized speakers for the last 7 years or so and haven't really felt the need to upgrade. But, I'm also using them in a smaller room that suits them well.
     
  25. contium

    contium Forum Resident

    I guess it depends on what you mean by "bookshelf" speakers. Ideally, I like to have the scale and weight that only bigger speakers produce. 6" or less shoebox sized 2-ways just don't cut it. But a big 10" or 12" 3-way "bookshelf" could work. Of course most of the speakers I have had for the past 20 years have been 6" 2-ways :-/ At least my Current JBL Studio 580's have two 6" drivers. Definitely have way more scale and authority than NHT Classic Three's or the KEF R300's I had. I general, when I go to audio shows, the only rooms that do anything for me have big speakers.
     
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