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"WHY 45 RPM?" Great 45 RPM 12" LP explanation by Kevin Gray!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JasonK, Nov 19, 2007.

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  1. Liquid Snake

    Liquid Snake Member

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    LOL! I read Calvin & Hobbes all the time as a kid. Still have a stack of those books too. Thanks for that. :D
     
  2. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    When the record flies apart due to centrifugal force. :laugh:

    But really, past a certain point, it doesn't matter. The greater speed is to increase the radius of curvature of the undulations to make them easier for the stylus to follow. As long as the radius of groove curvature is larger than the radius of the stylus, the record will track properly, regardless of speed. It could be a million RPM and it would make no difference. Imagine driving around a series of hairpin turns in a Porsche. Now imagine driving around them in a boxcar. Can't be done! That's why they came up with the elliptical stylus, with a smaller side radius. 45 RPM is really as fast as you want to go, because the faster the groove is moving, the more surface noise is going to be generated. Any gains in fidelity are going to be offset by the additional "whoosh".
     
  3. Baron Von Talbot

    Baron Von Talbot Well-Known Member

    Recently, this is more the rule than the exception. Of course one spin should be enough for Vocal tracks, but with Dance Music, some can be played at 33 and at 45 and sound good at either speed - it all comes down to your preferences. I remember buying a 3 LP set of the Massive Attack - 100th Window album - all 3 12" Records came in massive black inner sleeves with no info on how fast to play it. Since the average rule is more than one Song 33 RPM , i sat down and listend to all 6 sides of that album and only asked myself where that female singer was....LOL
    The darn Thing should be played at 45 !!!
    The most embarrassing thing is playing a record at a wrong speed in public..

    Some 12" Super Sound Singles came with only normal LP length Song of 3.33 minutes per Side. Tracks that only filled a 3rd of the space a 12" has to offer! Masters At Work (MAW) released a 12" Single called TRANZ (a Cover of Kraftwerk's 'Trans Europa Express' ) on which the Label is double the size of the usual . Both probably with the fact in mind, that the sound quality decreases towards the inner side next to the label i guess...
     
  4. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    I've played a 7" single b-side at home with two instrumentals at 45. Not sure when it occured to me it should have been 33.
     
  5. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    You think so? Well, in this case an exchange of our points of view on THIS matter becomes too difficult, because to me, the gramophone record cutting is the recording of information by modulation of LINEAR groove having its specific linear velocity in every case.
    Well, this can be proved only by applying standard values.
    I can only apply the standards I dispose of:
    Minimum diameter of the last recorded “inner” groove:
    300 mm record – 120 mm.
    178 mm record – 106 mm.
    The linear velocity formula: V = πDu/60,
    where D = groove diameter;
    u = speed of rotation, rpm.
    The “33 1/3” 300 mm record 120 mm “inner groove” linear velocity: 3,14 x 120 x 33,3 / 60 ≈ 210 mm/s.
    The “45” 300 mm record 120 mm “inner groove” linear velocity: 3,14 x 120 x 45 / 60 ≈ 283 mm/s.
    The “45” 178 mm record 106 mm “inner groove” linear velocity: 3,14 x 106 x 45 / 60 ≈ 250 mm/s.
    The difference between the linear speed of a 7" 45 and 12" 33's inner groove is 250 – 210 = 40 mm/s.
    The difference between the linear speed of a 12" 45 and 12" 33's inner groove is 283 – 210 = 73 mm/s.
    Which is much greater?
    If your calculation is based on another standard, it can also be seen.
     
  6. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Anyone who has water skied before should understand the principle well. :)
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Reopened.
     
    thrivingonariff and Myke like this.
  8. Myke

    Myke Listening

    MOFI Brothers In Arms
    AP A Charlie Brown Christmas
    AP Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section
    AP The Doors
    AP L.A. Woman
    AP Dusty In Memphis
    Classic Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young
    WB/Reprise Fleetwood Mac Rumours
    American Recordings - ZZ Top La Futura
    AP All 6 Stevie Ray Vaughan titles
    ORG Carole King Tapestry
    AP Pronounced Lynyrd Skynyrd
    AP Gimme Back My Bullets
    AP Elvis 24 Karat Hits
    MOFI One Step Abraxas *

    I can vouch for these. :agree: *actually, haven't rec'd the Abraxas yet, will next week.
     
    John Bliss likes this.
  9. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Some people appear to be in45rpm denial throughout this forum. They should read KevinGrays statement contained in the OP's first post.
     
    Experiencereunited likes this.
  10. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    In the LPs I ordered from the UK, I got one release that confused me before it arrived - The Enid - The Spell, great LP.

    I knew this was a double LP, but the length of the album confused me, I only thought the record got put into two since less audio = better sound, I thought. Didn't occur to me the rotations of a record = better sound and upon looking at the liner notes, it says "play this record at 45rpm" and I found this thread.

    Yeah this is no joke, probably the best sounding 80s LP I've heard so far. The first side is relatively quiet and the amount of breathing room was unreal - my question being, are there any LPs from the late 70s/80s that were pressed this way with the intention on best possible mastering? If it helps the record was mastered by one of the musicians on the album (Stephen Stewart) and references that in Japan, CDs are able to hold more music and reproduce sound better, so therefore the LP was split up this way. That's not entirely true... but, given the record was released on their own label I'm also floored they pulled this off given the cost.
     
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