Why did Westerns become so unpopular?

I'd say it's generational think in a lot of cases, and in some cases, like mine, I hated that they took up so much airtime while I was in my youth.

 

Well...Casino did feature L.Q. Jones. That alone makes it a 'Western'.

 

Jennifer? Are the two of you on a first name basis?

Jennifer Jason Leigh was not beaten up. It's called acting.

 

Oh, thanks for the lesson. I really thought she was getting beaten on camera....whoa do I feel silly, thank you so much for clarifying this for me. Boy do I have egg on my face!

 

You're welcome.

 

Watch out...she'll bake you a vinegar pie.

 

Little Big Man is another favourite of mine.

 

One of my favorites as well.

 

Great movie. The book is quite good as well.

 

The Outlaw Josey Wales



Looking back, I think this film is an extremely interesting one considering the subject here. Clint Eastwood's work in Westerns tends to be lumped in with the general sub genre of "revisionist" Westerns, by which I take to mean having at least the common element that the protagonist is more the antihero type found in film noir than the classic hero in the knight errant mold in earlier Westerns. And Eastwood's first directorial effort in Westerns, High Plains Drifter, is certainly in the revisionist mold, along with the Sergio Leone directed ones and others like Joe Kidd and Hang Em High that preceded Wales. And there are certainly reviews and commentaries out there that cast Wales in that grouping. But I think in hindsight Wales is interesting in terms of this thread because it set I think a new course that wasn't picked up that clearly by reviewers and audiences at the time.

Before discussing its virtues, Wales to be clear has its problems. Set in the Civil War and its immediate aftermath, by taking the main character's own experiences as a general perspective on its history, it goes beyond being merely superficial to being outright misleading in its anti-Union bias. But I think that can be put aside in watching it, if we understand it as the protagonist's own view. More problematic for the viewing experience is some loose editing from about the four fifth's mark for a couple of scenes, where some speechifying and action scenes could have been tightened up.

But the main point I want to make is I think in hindsight The Outlaw Josey Wales is very interesting for modifying the revisionist Western itself, sort of a revision of the revisionist. It does so by taking the protagonist from what appears to be the anti-hero mold and simultaneously undermining that understanding of him while also undermining the Western hero as the lone gunman. The individual hero is shown to arrive at a place where he has to go forward by choosing the communitarian, which he does by somehow becoming both.

For me this blending of opposites works, and is what makes Wales such a great film, that holds up very well. But that choice of treatment was confusing to many, who thought that the only way to show the Western hero was in either the classic or revisionist way.

The recent death of Sondra Locke (who appears as the love interest) reminded me of this great film. It has subtle comedy and warmth here and there amidst the realistic but not gory violence, and an overall feeling of authenticity (despite it's hero's abilities).

Anyway, for those who have never seen it, I highly recommend it, as I do for those who might benefit from a fresh look.

 

I liked it when it was released and still enjoy it. I appreciate the authenticity. Percussion revolvers instead of 1873 Colt SAA revolvers. I don't believe any Model 94 Winchesters were to be seen either. Great supporting cast.

 

I only made it about 10 minutes before shutting it off. The acting seemed awful. Maybe it was just the mood I was in, but I wasn't into it from the get go.

 

I see Josey Wales, Pale Rider and Unforgiven as a trilogy; I you dislike Clint or his style or refined approach from his earlier spaghetti westerns,
doubt you'd enjoy these. I do.

 

It isn’t that they’ve Me unpopular it’s that there just to many of them once TV arrived.

 

What about colorization in western films?
Thinking -Wayward The Women ( VHS-color).
Scenery looks much better.

 

Watching The Great Silence (1968)over the weekend I was getting deja vu thinking it was The Hateful Eight.

 

I've never seen The Hateful Eight. I guess it's time.

 

Centennial
Didn't watch this real time but excellent I thought.

 

I really loved the first two episodes especially. Just saw them again recently and still think they are very good.

 

As well you should! (However, in your favor, at least you didn't refer to her as 'Jenny', thank goodness)

 

I never understood why Deadwood didn't become more popular. It's one of the best written shows I've seen.

 

Deadwood was advanced television storytelling. Still is. It's not for everybody.

 

Maybe its an age thing, but I have become very interest these days in seeing wide blue skys, tree lined streams of clear running waters, and people motorvating on horses.

The other day I watched a terrific western I've never seen before - Ride the High Country.

 

That's kind of the point - his view as shape by his experience. JW's family was slaughtered by Union troops, which is the animating event for everything that follows. Is this anti-Union bias? Well, this sort of thing absolutely did happen; the Union campaign against southern civilian populations (the first modern war where this occurred as a matter of strategy) would be a war crime today.

Never thought of it that way, but I see your point. One sign of a great movie (or any work of art) is that it can be appreciated on multiple levels.

In addition, I'd add that there is a then-rare treatment of Native Americans as a sort of ersatz Confederacy. The meeting with Ten Bears contains this exchange:

JW: You'll be Ten Bears?
TB: I am Ten Bears.
JW I'm Josey Wales.
TB: I have heard. You're the Gray Rider. You would not make peace with the Bluecoats. You may go in peace.
JW. I reckon not. Got nowhere to go.
TB: Then you will die.
JW: I came here to die with you. Or live with you. Dying's not hard for you and me. It's living that's hard...when all you ever cared about has been butchered or raped. Governments don't live together. People live together.​

Later Ten Bears remarks, "It is sad that goverments are chiefed by double-tongues." Hard not to think this had some echoes to the just-concluded Watergate scandal.

 

On the plot development point if you will of where Wales ends up and how his character changes, I didn't come up with that observation myself, but can't remember where I first came across it. But how Josey Wales revises the revisionist Western is rather obvious when you compare its ending with Eastwood's own High Plains Drifter of a few years earlier (that being a classic revisionist Western). Instead of the (anti)hero riding off by himself, just as he did in all three of the Leone spaghetti Westerns, we know Wales is riding back to his what amounts to post Civil War commune. His future is one where the revisionist antihero we have previously seen has already begun to change, and will continue, to a man of principle living with others.

This is neither the knight errant model of the classic Western or the revisionist antihero, and is one of the things that makes The Outlaw Josey Wales such a fascinating film.

As for the Civil War history you refer to, the anti-Union bias I referred to is based on the fact that the story is not balanced. Wales first of all is a fictional character, and as such choosing to do his story on film represented a choice of which side of the butchery in Kansas and Missouri was chosen to show. It is also true that the William T. Anderson-led group Wales chose to join had its own sordid history of war crimes, Anderson also known as Bloody Bill Anderson for those who want to look him up. But as I also said and you agree the film works nonetheless because we see how Wales's view is shaped by his experience. Which he eventually grows not so much out of but away from (the film being essentially an anti-war film).