Why do classical fans seem to hate vinyl so much?

One argument in favour of classical music on vinyl is that, at least here in London with good charity shops, it's one of the all-time great bargains. The big Oxfam music shop near me has regular sales where classical LPs are 4 for £1. The range and variety and quality of performance you can pick up for virtually nothing is unmatched by any other medium. I am at present a net contributor to Oxfam, as I try to prune my ridiculously large collection, but the reason it is so large is that the quality/price ratio for classical vinyl has been so tremendous for the last 20 years. If I have a sudden interest in Brahms chamber music, say, I can go out and for a few pounds come back with a whole bag full of all kinds of different performances to compare.

 

Ouch!

 

That's because nobody wants them. Same with classical CDs (except online - people are bidding online for certain classical LPs/CDs ; perhaps they are filling gaps in their collection).

 

The live acoustics will be much better. However good your home setup, a live show in a proper auditorium will beat it.

 

[QUOTE="Dave S, post: 12006262, member: 43525"]That's because nobody wants them. Same with classical CDs (except online - people are bidding online for certain classical LPs/CDs ; perhaps they are filling gaps in their collection).[/QUOTE]

This is nothing new. I remember seeing classical LP's for pence back in the early 80's before CD had even been introduced on Tomorrow's World. It was exactly the same in the 78rpm era: classical recordings in general do not hold any second-hand retail value. I put this down to the fact that classical music is the "serious music" and more often than not listened to by audiophiles on their good quality systems. Classical music is constantly being re-recorded with better production values and sound quality so newer recordings tend to get favoured over older ones.

 

It isn't that simple though. Wish it were. SQ is very much dependent of where one sits in a hall. And there are some "proper" concert halls that don't have good acoustics. So I feel I always have to qualify that opinion with excellent hall and excellent seats in that hall. And of course it is dependent on the quality of musician and musical instruments.

 

My own theory is that classical music fans are getting older and are downsizing, dumping their large collections in one go. It's the only explanation that I see for the relatively large number of early West German and Japanese CDs that I see in thrifts. Had they been constantly upgrading, then these would have gone years ago.

 

I wonder how many famous halls have rubbish acoustics (I always felt the Royal Albert Hall in London would be rubbish, but I've never been).

 

Hard to think about, but if those are appearing in significant quantities it's probably because the owners have passed. Those early CDs are now 25 years old or more.

 

Probably a great thread topic. Concert hall sound. I think it would go hand in hand with a thread about the differences between the live experience and audio recording and playback.

 

I don't know if I quite agree. As far as used CDs go, classical often has an excellent resale value - dependent on the same factors that affect used CDs generally - compilations and excerpts are worthless, as are CDs that everyone and their uncle had. Crossover also tends to lose value quickly, with exceptions. The other thing with classical is the question of whether the recording at issue has been re-released, especially as part of a megabox. There's rarely interest in older releases, nor is there much interest (I don't think) in West German CDs, and even Japanese CDs aren't always expensive.

But a classical CD that is not that common and at least partially a recording that has not been re-released tends to hold its value quite well. Not as well as classic rock, but better than most other genres.

 

I'd bet a fair number of those LPs were never reissued on CD. Even if I prefer digital, that's why I still have a turntable.

 

Except two, that I know of. Munch/Boston on UK Victrola has the first three movements on side 1 and the fourth on side 2. The other one is also English, the 1926 Weingartner presented on the Phoenix label with movements 1 and 2 on side 1, movements 3 and 4 on side two.

 

The first CD I bought was classical simply because i wanted to get away from the pops and noise during quiet passages. Never bought another classical vinyl since but vinyl for rock is fine.

 

I can only imagine the sonic wonders that await one contained on these two discs

 

Depends on the title. Some CDs have appeal far beyond classical music fans. Those discs are always expensive (unless a seller prices them wrong). But agree, an OOP title is going to cost more. I think some early DGG and EMI titles are highly desirable because they were messed about in the 90s (EMI noise reduction software, for example). I find some of the early CBS titles great sounding.

But the key is finding the market. There aren't many classical fans in my neck of the woods, so the discs pile up.

 

Or the other, sadder, alternative.

 

Average symphony length is between 35-45 minutes. The CD was made to fit the monumental Beethoven 9th Symphony onto it - which was a big deal because on vinyl it took two discs. I think it was the Sony president who made that decision. It kind of sucks, because they could have easily made a CD contain 90 or more minutes on it!

 

Some CD's already exceed 90 minutes!

 

And it only took 3 decades to get there!

 

"Why do classical fans seem to hate vinyl so much?"

To answer your question short and simple:

"Because everything else is gaslight" (Herbert von Karajan)


I compared several of my DGG LPs with the corresponding CDs/SACDs/Hi-Res downloads and in my opinion
the digital medium wins all the time. Listening to DGG LPs sometimes is a nice variety, but switching back
to the clear sound of digital again, one learns to value the invention of digital media all the more.
It is like sitting right there in the concert, like a live experience.

 

Get over it.

 

"Why do classical fans seem to hate vinyl so much?"

Classical music reproduction is all about accuracy. The recording is almost always done in some natural setting (concert or chamber hall) with a simple mic set up such as omni or xy - it's purely acoustic. This is a lot of information to reproduce, hall effects, all the individual instruments, incredible dynamics, even things like shuffling feet and people moving around (in a opera) are the cues you need to sound realistic. Ambiance, presence or warmth is secondary and may detract.

Vinyl just loses too much information, if it was there in the first place. The best way to test this is to listen to a string section - that's the hardest thing to reproduce. So much complexity of tone. Vinyl makes something of a hash out of it, but RedBook does it perfectly. I tried everything to get a system that could do decent classical music (I'm a classical musician), and finally got rid of the horns, vinyl, SET's, planers etc in favor of a good DAC and Stax headphones (with the glorious Stax ED-1 diffuse field equalizer). Nothing else comes close.

Specifically here are the vinyl problems for classical

• Clicks/pops detract from the natural acoustic presentation
• Surface noise detracts
• The relatively small dynamic range detracts
• Often I'll hear the adjacent groove during a quiet passage as it 'bleeds through' the groove wall (frequent). This is horrible and detracting.
• Sudden loud passages (happens all the time) usually come with extra noise too as the needle strains to keep up.
• Side length as others have mentioned
• There's a 'wall' with vinyl you can't hear through. As many have said with CD's you can 'see through' the music
• Inability to reproduce large ensemble without falling apart

Having said that vinyl is good for small ensemble (like a quartet, a band or jazz) I still have a vinyl system for some records that were never rereleased as far as I know, mostly lieder.

 

It wasn't just the random pop or tick for me, I could sort of deal with that. It was how instruments would go in and out of tune. Drove me batty.