Why do you buy used CD's? - Your feelings about artist royalties

Artists get their 'royalties' from the original sell of a new CD from their record company. Me buying a used CD does not take away that money they got on the inital sell.

You are saying (if I'm reading it right) 'isn't it a little unfair that people who bought a used CD did not pay royalties to the artist for the music?" I say no, becuase I have no contract with the artists. I have bought a physical item and not a license from an artist to listen to their music.

If artist wants my money they can sell to me directly. And here's a hint: I'm not paying 19.99 for a CD from anyone, unless it's a very limited item. Rhino Handmade items cost more becuase they make few of them and usually there is little demand for the item (doors re-issues excluded.)

The selling of promos is another matter, this directly hurts the artists but is usually controlled by the record company. See the book: Stiffed: A True Story of McA, the Music Business, and the Mafia http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060924942/102-8936660-6867320?v=glance&n=283155

When I go see a concert I'm not paying an artist either. I'm paying a promotoer 95Z% of the time who has an agreement with the artist.

Artist: I'll buy NEW CDs directly from you for $9.99 for a single and $12.99 for doubles.

If you think the system is unfair to artist, we'll you are probably right. But the dreams of being a super rich and famous musican are jsut that - dreams.

I'll bet there are less than 20,000 rich and famous musicans in the world. The rest are between making-a-living and poor-as-dirt.

So to again state my view: I do not pay artists a license to listen to their music, I buy physical products. However their deal works is not my issue.

(Some of the ideas in this thread are very much like the argument that by fast-forwarding TV commercials you are stealing TV programming.)

 

I buy 2ndhand because:
- I don't have heaps of money
- I get out of print items
- I will buy something to try it
- a 2ndhand item has led me to purchase the complete collection of many artists, many of the items which would have been bought new
- I buy lots of new stuff anyway, so the artists/record comanies get more $ from me than the average person anyway
- the artists got royalties from the original sale anyway
- I influence many people to buy, based on their exposure to my music

 

I buy used CD's for what you guys call 'Target' CD's (got the target of Heart's Dreamboat Annie last week), for filling gaps in back catalog and during periods of unemployment getting music which otherwise I wouldn't have been able to afford.
I see no difference between buying used CD's, LP's or books (which when I was in the equivalent of US High School Grades 11 through 13 I certainly did a lot of).

 

I buy used to save money, that's it.

Aside from sale items my local HMV charges $15-$25 for a CD. I remarked to an employee (I know he doesn't set the prices) "you pulling in many customers with these prices" as I held up a 15 year old release priced at $27. He shrugged.

 

$1.00 to $2.00 over list price at almost every major retailer in the US sucks, plus the record companies subsidize them with ridiculous amounts of positioning money the artist rarely sees any $$ from the original sale...Unless the cd is on sale at below $10.00 i will buy used all the time...Screw FYE, Tower and the rest of the whores at retail in the US..The one exception is that if you find a good indie store support them and they will make your record buying experience new or used worthwile..

 

SULLIK, in regard to your Rush CD example: You were intending to buy it new but bought it used because you found it cheaper (makes sense). Now imagine Jo Schmo Rush fan who also buys used CDs goes into the CD store after you and cannot find the latest Rush CD in the used bin, so he buys it new. wala, royalties are paid to Rush. Meanwhile the they guy who originally traded in the Rush CD that you bought from the used bin, is in the process of buying the latest Bon Jovi CD new. This guy is not a huge Bon Jovi fan but a friend said their new CD is pretty good. He knows he doesn't have much to loose if he doesn't like it because he knows he can get $3-4 by trading it in at the used CD store (where he traded in his Rush CD). So he buys it new and Bon Jovi gets royalties. If this "trade-in option" never existed (let's pretend buying used was illegal), he would think a lot harder before buying the Bon Jovi and probably say screw it, I'll try to burn a copy from someone. So you see, the circle continues. Buying used is a good thing for all.

 

To underline part of what MBERGHAU says, and hopefully to better answer SULLIK's question: Remember that, as my long-winded comment of a few days ago suggests, this can only happen but so many times. There is no question that Rush has--through the lost new sale--lost their potential royalty in your example. However, as what MBERGHAU says also makes clear, there can only be a very few used copies of that album sitting around in the used bins of even a major city or within the reasonably easy grasp of any given potential buyer in you senario). In other words, the loss, such as it is, has a pretty strong self-limitation set on it by the nature of the used market. Used copies of albums only flood that market--if they ever do--after the new sales have mostly petered-out or leveled-off (and for some titles with consistent new sales the ratio of used to new copies remains small). The availability of used copies is itself a measure of present disinterest in the new market or of years of consistent sales in the new market, and so it can't be said to cut in on the new sales royalties all that much. The proportion always follows the demand for new sales, which is, of course, what generates the royalties.

L.

 

The way things are going, it won't be long before some music industry laywer tries to claim that you owe Rush a royalty for each of the times you heard the album "over and over"!

 

My bottom line- I have over 5000 CDs, and I buy anywhere from 2 to 10 CDs a week. Frankly, I could not afford my habit if every CD purchase was at full retail. As it is, I buy new product that the retailers put on sale the first week out of the box (even though in most cases I could wait for a used copy), and then get the rest of the stuff I want either with coupons through Tower, at yourmusic.com, on ebay or used. When it comes to used product, ebay isn't really much of a deal in most cases by the time you tack on shipping, so I mostly buy obscure or out of print stuff there.

I'm happy to support artists with royalties, but don't consider it my job to keep all the artists I enjoy in business. When it comes to this hobby, it has to be "me first."

 

Do you remember Garth Brooks' lobbying efforts to demand resellers pay a royalty? It was almost as popular as Metallica's attack on Napster. (And I agreed with Metallica). I tend to side with those that say, once the item was sold, the Royalty has been PAID.

Personally, I buy very few used cds (but bukoos of used lps). However, I buy *****loads from BMG and the old Columbia House. I know the royalty rates from those has got to be crap, but it would seem to be a contract issue more than a moral one, IMO. I know that several bigger acts limit or exclude their wares from music clubs altogether.

 

IIRC, there is no royalties paid at all on BMG/CH sales. They are basically treated like a clearance sale of excess inventory. That is why you never see anything real new being offered, so they are not competing. Generally, an album will be out a few months before it appears on the BMG/CH website.

 

I buy used cds sometimes , the last few were on the forum, targets, and other oop cds. What about used comics in stores, should Marvel get a cut from a 1967 Spiderman that sells for more than new?

 

The record companies have in the past were thinking about demanding royalties from used CD sales but didn't follow through.

 

There are royalties paid on CH/BMG sales, but not as much as if you were to buy them at a retailer, and even then, the royalties aren't always that big.

 

I mostly buy used CD's. I feel like the artist gets their money on the initial sale...that's it. No different than books, cars....heck...anything!

If I buy a used car, should I have to pay some sort of fee to the original automaker?

 

I don't download music at all and have "moral" issues with it, but I've never felt guilty about buying promo and used copies of albums and CD's, and they constitute a big chunk of my collection (not the majority, but a chunk). I've never been forced to defend the habit, but if pressed I'd say:

1). I was a deejay for 10 years and when I played a record I was promoting it... that's what promo copies are for... I should have gotten them for FREE!

2). I go to see a lot of LIVE music (well, a couple times a month now, but two or three times a week when I was in my 20's and 30's). As stated above, that's where non-superstar artists make money, not on CD sales.

3). When I buy new/retail (and I do, a lot) I feel I'm supporting the retailer more than the artist and I'm careful to choose the shop wisely... independent, knowledgable and with personality. They probably make more money on used stuff anyway, so I'm supporting the music network with those purchases as well.

 

They actually do make more money on used stuff than new stuff.

 

I buy used when an album is out of print and not available new. That is my may reason.
If I find a used CD which is in excellent condition, even if it's still available, I'll buy it. If I can save a few dollars here and there, I will. I mean, if you look at the regular retail price of new CDs these days they are high. Best Buys' regular prices range from 18.99 to 23.99. I find the only exception to that rule are brand new releases, which are invariably on special, or "oldies", which are frequently found at sale prices. Of course, try getting any Metallica for a cheap price. Not easy.
Long story short, the majority of my purchases are new, but the used CDs have a place on my shelf too.

 

No guilt...

...not when I buy remastered reissues of the same album that I've already bought new twice before: for example, "Pet Sounds", which I bought originally in mono on CD 15 years ago, then again in stereo when that came out, and now on DVD-A. I bought the last one used and feel no guilt whatsoever.

Robert

 

If royalties were paid on used CDs, how much would go to the artist? If for example the royalty pushed up the price of a used CD one nominal $1 (probably generous on my behalf), my guess that the record companies would charge about 80% of it as a "processing fee" and the artist would get bugger-all from it.

Also of interest to the discussion (without intending to hijaack the thread), is to those who buy only new also buy cut-outs, because no royalties are paid on those to the artist.

 

I don't want to make anyone mad on here, but I don't really care about the artist's pocketbooks. Most of the artists have more money than I will ever see. Jeff Beck, Ten Years After, Dave Matthews, Miles Davis, Neil Young, Isaac Hayes, Eric Clapton are all among my recent used purchases. None of these artists are hurtin for money. I lean to the left a little and think about the utility of money and ask why are certain professions so overpaid? Then I remember 'the invisible hand'. I'm still not convinced that the invisible hand knows what the other is doing. We like Nike, so Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods are worth millions. I can live with that. But I think it's prob good for Nike and the people that endorse Nike that collectors are purchasing old school Jordan's on ebay.

Buying used music creates and supports a market for products which does affect the artists in a positive manner. It spreads their music to new listeners. It also makes the original purchase of that music the purchase of a commodity which can be bought and sold, which helps boost sales. Would cd sales be lower if there was no market for used cd's? What about the hungry college kid that sold his cd's so he could pay his rent? Many of us have been there. We paid for the right to sell that item, if there was no market, we'd have been SOL.

Plenty of times I've purchased used music or was burned a cd from a friend which I liked and then went out to buy a new cd from that artist that I never would have bought had I not had the freebie to get me tuned it to that artist.

Alas, I do make a point to buy cd's from a few of the local bands that I like every time they come out with a new one.

KCJayyar said it above:

"If I buy a used car, should I have to pay some sort of fee to the original automaker?"

 

Amen! I've been trying to beat this out for years. The real end result of a record contract is being given the chance to go out on the road and make some money. The old country artists knew this the best. Make your record, get some airplay, take a bunch of vinyl from the company as payment and hit the road. Book your hiney everywhere you can. Sell tickets, sell records, tapes, cd's, sell t-shirts and autographed pictures. Any artist who didn't understand this trick and developed a good stage show was doomed to depending on royalty checks.

One country artist I got to know well tipped me off to some of this, and he'd done it for decades this way. Even years after his high popularity days were over, he'd still pack enough in to make a roadtrip worthwhile. He said sometimes he'd get some money from the record company, sometimes a check for songwriting royalties, but most of his income was cash sales at concerts. At least a three to one ratio for what he was paid for the gig. Or, if he got a thousand for the gig, he could count on three-thousand in merchandise sales. Multiply that by a couple hundred gigs a year and you've got some nice change.

So buy that used cd....and if they're still on the road, go see 'em and buy a t-shirt, take some friends along.

 

Well, you got me...

You really have to reexamine your facts and your attitude.

90% of musicians don't make enough for a middle-class living, including a lot of very good ones.

If you buy a CD used, only the seller makes money from it (disregarding marketing value). If you buy a CD from a retailer of some sort, the artist will make mechanical royalties, songwriting royalties, and possibly something from the record company. If you buy it direct from the artist, he or she will make this plus some of what the retailer makes. It's that simple.

To exclude the artist from this equation is exploitative, and it will mean that there will be less good music for you to enjoy in the future.

 

The other side of buying used CDs or downloading music and thus depriving the artist of royalities is this:

Why I have felt compelled to buy the SAME music over and over again over the years? Let's see---I bought "Dark Side Of The Moon" on vinyl in 1973, on 8-track in 1977, on cassette in 1979, bought the MFSL LP in 1980, the CD in 1988, and a MFSL CD and a 'remastered' EMI CD a few years later. That's SEVEN copies of the same copyrighted piece of material---why? Sometime out of a personal desire to find better fidelity, but mostly because the same record company keeps changing the formats or convincing me there's a better version available.

I'll make the labels and artists a deal---I'll never buy a used CD or download a free MP3 again if they will only sell me personal access to the copyrighted work ONCE, and let me exchange it for new formats/updated versions for the life of that copyright.