Why don't singers take vocal lessons

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by alcheung, Apr 15, 2022.

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  1. alcheung

    alcheung Forum Resident Thread Starter

    This may be my misconception but you don't hear much about lead singers taking vocal lessons. From those who know, would proper training allow a singer to preserve their voice. Many rock lead singers have destroyed their voice to such a degree that they a hard to listen to. I know the Wilson sisters of heart had training and Ann's voice still sounds great. I recall watching a program where a vocal teacher was searching for older opera singers to learn there techniques since the way the singers are singing now are blowing out there voices
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
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  2. katieinthecoconut

    katieinthecoconut Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's not something that singers talk about but many of them have in fact had vocal lessons. Even singers in run-of-the-mill indie bands have often seen somebody at some time or other.

    It's a bit like how guitarists don't often talk about their guitar lessons, or celebrities don't talk about their media training. It's just not cool to speak of, and nobody really asks them about it.
     
  3. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I expect that most professional singers get vocal training now. It was probably not a thing during the 60's and 70's, which has probably caused many singers of that generation to have vocal problems later in life that they might have avoided with proper training.
     
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  4. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    They learned more from a three-minute record, baby, than they ever learned in school.
     
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  5. egebamyasi

    egebamyasi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Worcester, MA
    They either have it or they don't.
     
  6. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    Who said they don't? It might be only when they get an issue, but I think many do.
     
  7. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Any singer that has significant success will be strongly advised to get singing lessons to preserve their voice and avoid the development of nodules later in life. Some will listen. Some will have regrets.
     
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  8. Paul Gase

    Paul Gase Everything is cheaper than it looks.

    Location:
    California
    Singing lessons, a vocal/voice coach, specialists, doctors….I think a lot of singers have someone they can go to for assistance, depending upon their own circumstances.
     
  9. ca1ore

    ca1ore Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stamford, CT, USA
    How do you know they don't? I'd imagine some do and some don't. Plus, studio recording tools can turn anyone into a passable singer these days.
     
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  10. nosticker

    nosticker Forum Guy

    Location:
    Ringwood, NJ
    You're assuming that the degradation of the human voice has to do with bad technique. It doesn't necessarily. Even someone like David Lee Roth took vocal lessons and others work with coaches, but time catches up with us all.



    Dan
     
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  11. Maggie

    Maggie like a walking, talking art show

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Virtually all professional singers nowadays have received vocal lessons. It's one of the reasons why so many rock and pop singers since the late '90s sound so similar to one another.
     
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  12. bvb1123

    bvb1123 Rock and Roll Martian

    Location:
    Cincinnati Ohio
    I think most do but don't talk about it, probably because they want to be seen as someone with preternatural vocal skills. When I was just a singer in a rock n roll band I saw a vocal coach from the UC Opera program just to learn better breathing control and how not to shred my vocal chords. I never talked about it back then. Of course we were completely unknown so it's not like anyone ever asked.
     
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  13. AZRunner

    AZRunner Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW FL
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  14. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    OK, I'll upvote you but I don't like your conclusion! (which is not to imply it isn't correct) :agree:
     
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  15. No. 44

    No. 44 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mont Boron
    I recently read a quote from Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders on this
    subject which I found very insightful:

    "Distinctive voices in rock are trained through years of many things:
    frustration, fear, loneliness, anger, insecurity, arrogance, narcissism,
    or just sheer perseverance – anything but a teacher."

    To me that sums it up pretty well, and I personally would much rather
    hear a Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Geddy Lee, Joey Ramone etc. than a
    singer whose voice has been honed and homogenized to perfection
    through years of schooling. To me that's one reason why Rock singers
    are often much more expressive than Opera singers -- at least to my ears.
     
  16. AZRunner

    AZRunner Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW FL
    I don’t think vocal training homogenizes anything. It merely teaches you how to use your instrument. Just think what those artists you listed might have done with that natural talent if they had a little guidance. I don’t see how it would make them worse, or homogenous. It’s like saying only self taught guitarists have “it.” Ms. Hynde could have benefited from some training as well, by the way.
     
  17. sotosound

    sotosound Forum Resident

    A potential problem is that some singers become too recognisable for the sound that they get when singing in a way that strains their vocal chords. (Sam Smith, Adele, Macca etc.)

    Just yesterday, "Harvest For The World" by The Christians came on in the car, and I had to suffer for a while as the lead singer (Garry Christian?) destroyed his larynx trying to invoke the spirit of Ronald Isley without having the real tools to do so.

    In the end I skipped to the next track as I started to imagine the sore throat that comes from trying to extract a James Brown or Wilson Pickett scream from a larynx that's more like that owned by Modest Whiteboy.

    A vocal coach is likely to offer some tips regarding how to preserve one's larynx, but if that includes telling, say, Paul McCartney not to try to sing "Maybe I'm Amazed" in the same way as he did in 1970, most of those tips are likely to be listened to and then disregarded.

    Less like "Lessons Learned" and more like "Lesions Earned".

    Some singers already recognise or eventually learn that singing in a way that communicates on the emotional level doesn't always require screaming. Just a slight tremor or a sudden change in volume can be far more arresting than a scream. Ask Frank of Andrea....
     
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  18. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    because a beautiful natural is better...
     
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  19. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    As a voice teacher, I can tell you that, though we know a lot, we still have a long long way to go when it comes to understanding the nuance of aging on the human voice. Too many people want to assume that voice loss is only down to misuse or lack of training. While it's definitely a factor, it's impossible to say in many circumstances. These people are like aging athletes. What they do takes a lot out of them and times gets us all in the end.
     
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  20. David Austin

    David Austin Eclectically Coastal

    Location:
    West Sussex
    Years ago (decades!) I saw a programme on TV where they interviewed a very well-spoken female music teacher who had had several rock and pop vocalists come to her for singing lessons. I can't remember who she was, or exactly when this was (late '70s or early '80s), but I do remember her saying that she always asked such clients if they wanted their listeners to be able to understand the lyrics they sang. They invariably answered 'yeah' (and she simulated the kind of accent they might reply in). She would then set about working on their diction. I'm sure she also said she went into the issues of breathing, avoiding nodules, and so on.
     
  21. Cryptical17

    Cryptical17 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Ringo Starr definitely had a vocal instructor!
    I remember him saying it in an interview.
     
  22. Simoon

    Simoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    But it doesn't quite work like that.

    First of all, voice lessons don't necessarily lead to a voice that is 'honed and homogenized to perfection through years of schooling'. Vocal coaches will aim their lessons with vocalists to the results the vocalist wants, and work within the limitations and strengths of each particular singer.

    Berklee School of Music has many vocal courses in their curriculum. Pop and rock courses are among them.

    Second, vocal coaches will not alter the natural, unique aspects of one's voice, only allow them to work better with what they already have. Training a rock singer to have more range, sing with more power, sing with techniques that will allow them to hold notes longer, sing from the diaphragm, transition better between chest voice and head voice, etc, etc, will not change them into a 'homogenized singer'. It will just allow them to express their uniqueness better. Their natural character will still be there, but they will be able to use it better.

    I can guarantee you, that many more rock vocalists (many of whom you may like), have had voice lessons than you think.

    David Lee Roth, a guy that I am sure you would not expect to have had voice lessons, said this, thousands of hours of vocal training was essential to discovering and perfecting my signature sound.

    And you should not take your Chrissie Hynde quote and believe it applies to all rock singers. Debbie Harry, for example, had years of vocal coaching. So did Pat Benatar (she was accepted into Juliard as an opera singer). And David Bowie. And Chris Cornell. And Joe Bonamassa. And Anthony Kiedis. I don't hear much homogenization, or lack of individual expression in any of them.

    And third, it sounds like you are creating a false dichotomy between singers that 'sing from their gut and life experiences', with the best trained opera singers. There is a huge chasm of singers that are highly trained, but sound nothing like opera singers, and might even be in some of your favorite bands.

    And finally, I really dislike this attitude that, too much training (on any instrument), will train the expressiveness out you. "You have to play it (or sing it) from the gut", can be done with and without extensive training. In fact, it is my contention that a well trained musician, can have even greater expressiveness than an untrained on, because they probably have a much larger set of tools, and a greater understanding of musical language, on which to draw.
     
  23. Maggie

    Maggie like a walking, talking art show

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    To be clear, I'm on no account saying that music was better in the old days, that new music sucks, etc. etc. etc. Quite the contrary. I do, however, think that there has been a certain ossification of vocal training pedagogy that has resulted in most professional pop/rock vocalists ending up with a very similar vocal texture. I first noticed it in the early 2000s and it was a while before I found out why.

    Honestly this is one of the reasons that I enjoy hip-hop so much nowadays. It's one of the few popular genres of music where vocal individuality is really encouraged, and there's more room for idiosyncratic singing too.
     
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  24. Matty

    Matty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    When I listen to the Meat Puppets' Too High To Die (from 1994) back-to-back with their mid-to-late 80s albums (MP II, Up On The Sun, Mirage), it's hard for me not to conclude that their record label paid for the Kirkwood brothers to get vocal lessons. Alternatively, maybe the producer of Too High To Die simply hid their stash of pot.
     
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  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    I get the impression that vocal training techniques became more of a thing in rock music during the eighties, perhaps late seventies, after tons of rock artists ravaged their vocal cords during the early rock years
    But I'm just speculating.
     
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