Why Giles Won’t Remix Rubber Soul/Revolver

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by danielkov86, Jul 29, 2021.

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  1. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I'm under the impression that the remixes have in effect replaced the original vinyl versions of Pepper, White Album, Abbey Road and Let It Be. Maybe temporary is wishful thinking. However considering how mediocre the 2009 (2012 vinyl) versions are maybe not a total disaster. The LIB remix is certainly an improvement over the original version and have no objection to that staying. All analogue stereo vinyl is what is needed without any digital messing.
     
  2. ronbow

    ronbow Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    As mentioned up-thread -- the remixes replace the originals until they don't. That is, the remixes are working their way through the channels, nobody
    wants to be sitting on stockpiles of the originals at this point and they go out-of-print - for now! - until it is time to reissue the originals. Ebb and flow.
     
  3. Macca4ever

    Macca4ever Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    For the 75th anniversary, the original mixes will replace the remixes ...
     
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  4. Big Sur 4/4 version

    Big Sur 4/4 version Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI
    Emerick recalls: "We spent three weeks on the mono mixes and maybe three days on the stereo."
    Most listeners ultimately heard only the stereo version.”
    People who worry about a new mix becoming dominant over the original should already start worrying.
    True, but I will say that people (at least several people I’m familiar with) are more likely to mix Beatles songs into their playlists if they have a mix that doesn’t sound drastically out of place with the last 45+ years of music
    This would also be great. Exactly why I think that if they do do Deluxe Editions, it should be exactly like the Pepper one.
    Remix of album.
    Sessions.
    Original mono album+single
     
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  5. Big Sur 4/4 version

    Big Sur 4/4 version Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI
    I think that’s jumping to conclusions way too quickly, there was barely any movement with the digital catalog between 1987-2009.
    22 years.
    The first remixed album in the series only came out four and a half years ago.
    In 2022, saying that the remixes are completely replacing, in all channels, the original is very very premature.
    Now 15–20 years from now, if the original mixes have been out of print for two decades, then I think it would be fair to say that The remixes have officially replaced them.
    But as it is now, I think they’re just out of print because they’re out of print, very little demand.
    Why would they just keep printing and printing if there’s already enough in circulation to meet the demand?
     
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  6. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Is there?
     
  7. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working

    Location:
    S FL
    That’s a great point to make as people debate and agonize over the tiniest to the most dramatic changes in the mixes. The casual listener doesn’t care. However, I understand why Apple would want the mixes to be more modern. Younger fans, those new to Beatles music are accustomed to hearing music with the production values of today. I think the theory is that if the music has a “sound” of the 60’s/70’s, it may not get a fair listen.
     
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  8. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    Right, and that is why I sort of just think there comes a point where we just have to let it be, and just listen to whatever mix we like best and not worry about speculation of "the original mixes are not ever gonna be available in the future in my preferred format"
     
    ronbow likes this.
  9. Big Sur 4/4 version

    Big Sur 4/4 version Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI
    It’s a stupid analogy anyway because either way:
    A: their Music has been touched several times by hands that weren’t theirs, with decisions that they didn’t agree with.
    It’s very very well-known that John Lennon absolutely hated the stereo mix of revolution, it’s quite well known that they weren’t happy with the US versions of the albums, Paul McCartney hated the original let it be mix, etc. so if it’s all about keeping the artists original intention, that ship sailed all the way back in 1964. The stereo mixes are the defaults, they’ve been the default basically since the 70s, even today the mono mixes aren’t easy to find digitally or new.
    So if I’m going to be listening to a touched up song, I’d rather it be one that doesn’t make my headphones sound broken and my brain feel scrambled.
    B: The Mona Lisa has been retouched and tweaked several times over the last 500 years to preserve it.
    It’s been washed, varnished, parts of it repainted, and the frame restored.
    but either way music isn’t like a painting, it’s not a singular thing, there’s millions and millions and millions of copies of those original mixes and such out there.
    The only thing you could really compare to the Mona Lisa is the original master tape that’s stored in a vault, everything else is just a replication.
     
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  10. Big Sur 4/4 version

    Big Sur 4/4 version Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI
    600 million albums, somewhere around 2 billion singles, A vast majority of that the original mono or stereo mixes… yeah I’d say so.
     
  11. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Those are...for sale? Or just exist?
     
  12. Big Sur 4/4 version

    Big Sur 4/4 version Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI
    Some of them are.
    As I said, no need to keep printing and printing and printing if there’s enough at this moment in circulation to meet demand.
    There’s not an extremely heavy demand for the original 1967 stereo mix to be remastered again at this moment, it’s not like it’s a rare find, so why on earth would they keep dumping money into it right now?
     
  13. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    How do you know there's "enough at this moment in circulation to meet demand"? What exactly is the demand?

    "In print" doesn't mean "keep printing and printing and printing", it means that as supplies are exhausted, more are created. It would seem supplies have been exhausted for a while now.
     
  14. They could solve the issue by simply having the original mono / stereo mixes easily accessible in digital formats. The Rolling Stones have their mono box set up on Spotify without issue; why not do the same for the Beatles?

    I understand not having the vinyl in print, due to the expense / difficulty of cutting vinyl (especially due to the pandemic and the added delays), but there's really no excuse for having the 2009 mono (and 1965 stereo mixes of Help + Rubber Soul) on streaming platforms and on digital download platforms.

    As a side note, didn't they do high quality quality 24 bit / 192 kHZ transfers of everything back in 2006 / 2007 for the 2009 campaign? Couldn't they just give those files to a new mastering engineer and do some decently updated remasters for the streaming age?
     
    2141 likes this.
  15. Big Sur 4/4 version

    Big Sur 4/4 version Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI
    I don’t think the albums need to be remastered.
    The 2009 master sounds fine, doing it today wouldn’t solve anything really.
    Agree with making the mono mixes more widely available, but I still think presenting a remix alongside the original mono has its benefits.
     
  16. Prince John

    Prince John Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Not only is there are seemingly endless amounts of used physicalcopies in various formats on Discogs, Ebay, Amazon, etc, all of the original mixes can also easily be illegally downloaded for free, including of holy grail masterings of the original mixes like the Abbey Road Black Triangle. I feel like some of you are trying to be Chicken Little and act like “the sky is falling” when it comes to the availability of the original mixes. They will never be difficult to obtain. This is especially ironic considering all the Chicken Littles here have more copies of the original mixes than any sane person should own.
     
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  17. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    There's quite a bit that would be solved/corrected with new remasters.

    That fact that something "can also easily be illegally downloaded for free" doesn't stop record companies from, you know, having new product to sell. Because people will buy them.
     
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  18. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    What are those "production values of today"? Isn't the part of the charm of the songs in its original sound? How can Mr. Kite sound modern? What is modern about Within You Without You remix? Do you think that younger people suddenly love Within You Without You because it's newly remixed from the first generation tapes?
    It probably sounds sarcastic from me but I don't mean to. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.
     
  19. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    All in all I think that in the age of streaming, and playlist curation, it does make sense to have audio from this band from a stereo-imaging point of view, that would sonically fit with other songs from the eras that proceed the "stereo is a brand new thing, let's try this" era

    It is a necessity or something that will bring in a substantial amount of new younger fans in droves? I dunno about that, but clearly the people who had the idea for these remixes thought it was enough of a factor to warrant the remixes, amongst a few other factors, so I think that all in all, all that is left is to just rock out with the mix our ears like the most
     
  20. Big Sur 4/4 version

    Big Sur 4/4 version Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI
    Not really, more likely is they just make some weird EQ choice that sends half the fandom into a tizzy.
    If they’re going to do something with these albums that’s clearly going to make some people unnecessarily upset despite the fact that all of their old copies are still available, I’d rather them give it a fresh new remix, not just a remaster of the same thing.
     
    HotelYorba101 likes this.
  21. Prince John

    Prince John Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Like what? If you already have definitive original mixes with the 1987 CDs and the 2009 mono and 1965 Stereo Rubber Soul and Help, what else do you want them to do/fix without a remix?

    True but most people don’t buy music anymore unless it’s a subscription to a streaming service. The point is, the original mixes aren’t going to vanish at all. If anything they’re easier to get now.
     
  22. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Is that the reasons for the remixes? Or because they are something new to sell?

    Yes, really. Remasters without all of the "restoration" from the 2009 CDs would be most welcome, especially considering how much people seemed to prefer the mono LP remasters (straight transfers of the tapes, just with EQ) over the stereo LP remasters and 2009 CDs (all with extensive "restoration").

    Who said those are the "definitive mixes"? The 2009 mono remasters have the same issues as the stereos, the first 4 were obviously not issued in stereo in 1987, and the rest of the original CDs aren't necessarily definitive.

    Yet..people do buy music.
     
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  23. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    The best way is having the bass guitar in the right channel and boost +6db for thumping punch and everything else left. Sounds great in headphones.
     
  24. The remixes really, REALLY should've include the mono and stereo mixes alongside the new mixes. The fact that the Blu Rays only contain the remixes (in 2.0 and 5.1) on their Blu Rays baffles me. Blu Rays have 25 GB of storage space, for crying out loud!

    I think that the 2009 remasters are decent enough, but they could be improved upon (especially since the final masters exist only at 24 bit / 44.1 kHZ). While it would be nice to do back to the original tapes and do some Plagent process / DSD transfers of the tapes, I'd be totally fine with some basic remasters of the 2006 digital transfers. Give them to a decent mastering engineer, and release them in a separate digital download set. The Beatles estate would garner good will / money in exchange for minimal effort, and the 50th anniversary sets would still have the benefit of fancy new remixes and bonus materials.
     
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  25. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    Then why the remixes keep having the drums and bass panned to a side? In case of A Day In The Life the original mix has the drums/bass in centre but for the new remix they panned it off centre. It doesn't make sense at all.
     
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