Why I won't buy a new Tube Amp

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by allied333, Aug 1, 2022.

  1. Frank Bisby

    Frank Bisby Forum Resident

    I don’t think it’s complicated, it is just very easy to hear the difference and that’s why they are uncommon in high end equipment. Get a pair of headphones (take the room and the speakers out of it) and connect to any integrated with a button to bypass that circuit. Complicated or not you can hear how the signal is stronger and cleaner without it. Again, it’s a standard in the industry for a reason, it’s a proven best practice for sound quality. Don’t take my word for it, send an email to any class A recommended manufacture and ask them why they don’t have tone controls.

    the tone controls for a tube amp are the tubes.

    and yes, you can connect a source that has a volume control directly to an amplifier and it can sound better than passing through a preamp. Very often, it does indeed sound better. Pull the jumpers on the back of a vintage receiver, bypass it’s internal preamp and only use the amplifier sections, no
    EQ just a clean signal from the source. It’s a wildly inconvenient way to do business buy you can hear that adding to the signal path isn’t automatically an improvement. There are some very nice pre amps that I find clearly make a signal sound better than going directly to an amp but that doesn’t prove an additional EQ circuit doesn’t raise the noise floor.

    There is no reason to die on this hill. Schiit makes a very good EQ that you can add to anything. Buying an integrated based on its tone controls is a misguided order of priorities.
     
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  2. nutsfortubes

    nutsfortubes They tried to kill us, and we won!

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Sorry it is an integrated amp not an amp. Also looked for a SEDHT integrated amp with tone controls can’t find one.
     
  3. Ontheone

    Ontheone Poorly Understood Member

    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Amp designers are hyper focused on isolating sources of noise and simplifying the signal path. I completely understand why it would be undesirable to have tone controls added to the configuration. Personally I'd focus on finding an amp that is voiced to your personal liking without tone controls. There is so much variability in how amps sound across the market, surely there is a design and implementation that will suit everyone's listening priorities and liking.
     
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  4. nutsfortubes

    nutsfortubes They tried to kill us, and we won!

    Location:
    New Jersey
  5. Frank Bisby

    Frank Bisby Forum Resident

    I would also say this hasn’t been my experience. I don’t think you will find an owner of a 211 tube amp that would tell you there isn’t much difference.
     
  6. Oddiofyl

    Oddiofyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    I haven’t had a preamp with tone controls since my McIntosh C15. Circa 1995 or so ….. never used them on that unit either. EL 34 or 6L6 …. Those have been my “ tone control “ for years !
     
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  7. dover1968

    dover1968 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    I think the luxman sq150 has tone controls, but only 10 watts per channel.
     
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  8. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile Thread Starter

    Location:
    nowhere
    Actually I had a pair of monoblocks that sounded better with a preamp. Preamp was Jeff Korneff 6P5 preamp.
     
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  9. Jaxjax67

    Jaxjax67 Samantha Fish @ small venue

    Location:
    Toledo Wa
    I don't buy into this...
    I fully believe the reason you don't see tone controls in 4k up amps is purely marketing. Any competent EE can design a proper tone control/EQ without loss of SQ. The defeat function & complete lack of is completely mental marketing IMO. They full well know audiophiles are a silly bunch that even the mention of a tone control on a supposed high-end amp must mean its smeared or lack of detail, transparency, etc, etc. I went thru a purist phase bigtime. I wouldn't say it was a waiste of time....but it did cost a lot of $. I give much more credit to proper design nowadays then some "pure sonic pathway"
     
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  10. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile Thread Starter

    Location:
    nowhere
    Thankyou. Most believe tone control elimination are due to better sound. It is simply a marketing ploy that no tone controls sounds better, plus manufactures save a few dollars. It's pure bunk.
     
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  11. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile Thread Starter

    Location:
    nowhere
    5 watts per channel is not enough power. I need at least 10 watts per channel with my speakers.
     
  12. Oddiofyl

    Oddiofyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    A GREAT sounding amplifier. That is a nice pairing with Cornwalls or Forte
     
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  13. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile Thread Starter

    Location:
    nowhere
    PP design, want SE design.
     
  14. Oddiofyl

    Oddiofyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    Are you sure 10 watts is enough with those Revel?
     
  15. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    Why don't you build your own?
     
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  16. BrentB

    BrentB Urban Angler

    Location:
    Midwestern US
    My old RCA Living Stereo amp is SET (2-6bq5) and has a low and a hi control. It was rebuilt with HQ components about 12 years ago and at about 14 WPC sounds great! On the other hand I set the tone controls years ago and don't think I have touched them since.
     
  17. Frank Bisby

    Frank Bisby Forum Resident

    A bit off topic but you might be interested. I don’t think you are using any digital sources so this might be something you could use. It’s a digital source and it’s a lot of fun with many practical applications when working on equipment or making comparisons.

    [​IMG]

    It’s a DAC, toneboard by kardas and you can get it on Amazon for about $100. You have to buy that plexiglass case separately and build it but that’s not a big deal. It’s small, it gets power from the USB on your computer (nothing to plug into a wall)and it sounds really good. When I’m in my workshop I’m not looking to set up a turntable to see if something is working or do tests. A laptop, that box and RCA cables works beautifully. If I want to go straight into an amp, bypassing any pre amp circuitry, the volume control on the computer makes that possible. An $8 a month Amazon music subscription gets you an amazing catalog of hi-res content but there is certainly no lack of free music to use on the internet.

    ultimately what I have is a constant variable for doing experiments with sound that is easy, high quality and direct without any sound that can be added from resonance, distortion or mechanical noises from analog equipment. I also collect a good deal of vintage equipment I have set up in various rooms in my house, this is a nice source that can travel and keeps me from buying source equipment for each rig. It fits into a laptop bag so I can take it when someone wants me to come to their house and work on any of their equipment.

    more of a tool for doing work than a commitment to a digital lifestyle but it may provide context for what I’m talking about when discussing pre amp circuitry. If you are using a vintage amp that has jumpers, plug that directly into the amp section and you can hear for yourself what’s going on when you cut tone controls out of the circuit. Let it play for a bit and then put the jumpers back it and connect to the AUX or tape mon.

    Your tone controls could be something you have relied on over many years to overcome issues with your analog rig. I can promise you that buying a turntable, cartridge, phonostage and records that will match the sound coming out of that little box will cost thousands of dollars. I just had it over to friends house who has a technics 1200, 2m blue and a lounge (about $2,000 all in), that box is better. If he spent another $500 on a better cart I don’t think that would be the case but you get the point.

    by definition, when you are using tone controls you are fixing a problem. I think it’s worth investigating where you choose to set your tone controls when using a digital source. You could be goosing the treble as a result of a lack of detail (or from not using enough power to drive your speakers), same thing with the bass. If you find you are turning up all the EQ knobs and faders, that’s a sign of not enough power from your amp.

    anyway, it a good reference point to have and at the very least you can listen to online broadcasts for
    Radio stations you enjoyed when living in different states.
     
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  18. mtemur

    mtemur Forum Resident

    6BQ5 is a pentode tube not a triode. Unfortunately your amp is not SET. From a technical standpoint using pentode tubes connected as triode doesn’t qualify it as SET. I’m sure it sounds wonderful though.
     
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  19. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile Thread Starter

    Location:
    nowhere
    They play louder than I ever use on 12 watts.
     
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  20. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Decware will actually install a "Treble Cut Circuit" in their SET amps if you ask. I have them on my SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with the 25th Anniversary mods and like it a lot--it's an adjustable tone control that is outside the signal path and shunts high frequency signal to ground. The Decware amps are not necessarily "integrated amps" but they have adjustable gain and do not need a preamp for use.
     
  21. dover1968

    dover1968 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    I bet it is.
     
  22. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile Thread Starter

    Location:
    nowhere
    My present amp sounds great so I do not need a new amp. It would be fun though to try something different with tone controls.
     
  23. BrentB

    BrentB Urban Angler

    Location:
    Midwestern US
    Well I will just say it is SE...
     
  24. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile Thread Starter

    Location:
    nowhere
    True, however heptodes, pentodes and triode connected of either still can be single-ended, but SET does state single ended triode.
     
  25. Frank Bisby

    Frank Bisby Forum Resident

    But not so good that you don’t need to use tone controls
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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