Why, oh why, do people ruin music with compression???

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Strat-Mangler, Dec 11, 2019.

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  1. Turntable

    Turntable Senior Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    your link was to the vinyl edition. Of course the mp3 snippets on amazon played on your laptop/phone are compressed.
     
  2. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    Streaming isn't 'crap' so don't characterize it as such.
     
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  3. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    Sadly that's not the case. When Kate Bush's Aeriel was released, there were people on Kate forums complaining that the album had too much dynamic range.

    Specifically, that they couldn't listen to it at the gym while working out.

    After refraining from screaming at them that this is a work of art, not some brainless piece of Pop pap, I explained how they could rip the CD, load it into Audacity and run it through a compressor to smush it up to their heart's content.
     
  4. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto
    Quote where I equated streaming with crap.
     
  5. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    It's crazy, right? Buy only CD's and then complain that CD's sound like crap because they are compressed and then bemoan the demise of the CD industry right down to Amazon burning CDR's and the Beatles releasing Abbey Road on un-rippable discs.

    Fighting a losing battle. I think that's what they call that.
     
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  6. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    [​IMG]

    It also messes up iTunes (now Apple Music's) Sound Check feature which ensures that all songs are playing at the same volume. Very important when most of what you listen to are mood playlists filled with random songs from multiple artists.

    I remember before using Sound Check when a really quiet song from Pink Floyd's The Wall was unlistenable in the car, had to crank the volume all the way up manually, and then the next song from another artist comes on and BOOM it's insanely loud. Whatever modern mastering is doing to normalize sound integrity from track to track for those listening to hundreds of random tracks for hours on end, it's working really well now, it's not an issue for me whatsoever.
     
  7. krisjay

    krisjay Psychedelic Wave Rider

    Location:
    Maine
    Most of the shame should be directed at the artist in my opinion. If you are not involved enough to realize your album sounds horrible, then again it is on you the artist. It is not a given that terrible, dynamic free sound is the only thing that can be made. Listen to Tool's album, Fear Innoculum, it is fully dynamic, even on CD, and sounds pretty damn good. Production, recording, mastering should always have the eyes and ears of the artist involved in some fashion.
     
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  8. RubenH

    RubenH Forum Resident

    Location:
    S.E. United States
    An excellent example (forgive me if already mentioned) is U2 / Achtung, Baby (1991) - - wonderful sonics
     
    Rockford & Roll likes this.
  9. showtaper

    showtaper Concert Hoarding Bastard

    Kinda like putting a tourniquet on your neck to stop the bleeding when you nicked yourself shaving.........
     
  10. 93curr

    93curr Senior Member

    Exactly this. Master the software correctly and provide an option on the hardware to compress or not to the listener's heart's content. Everybody's happy!
     
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  11. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Someone was listening to Aerial in the gym?o_O
     
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  12. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    I know! The ancient Greeks had gods who would send buzzards to tear your ears off for lesser crimes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  13. The Gomper

    The Gomper By Your Side?

    Location:
    Missouri
    Recorded on 16bit DAT!
     
  14. RubenH

    RubenH Forum Resident

    Location:
    S.E. United States
    Is that right? I did not know that. Impressive.
     
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  15. Orthogonian Blues

    Orthogonian Blues A man with a fork in a world full of soup.

    Location:
    London, UK
    I know, right? Unless they were doing yoga, or something.
     
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  16. joannenugent

    joannenugent Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast USA
    I have in fact used a stereo set of Apple HomePods in my apartment in conjunction with Apple Music. Just for giggles, I did some listening tests, streaming Apple Music directly to the HomePod vs streaming Apple Music to my Mac and then sending the digital signal to my, rather mid-fi component, DAC for conversion to analog.

    I will say the HomePod is hands down the best sounding smart speaker I have ever heard, and it even beats out a lot of “Home Theater” sound bars. I think some of the innovative ways Apple worked to get around the limited size of the HomePod, such as bouncing some frequencies off the nearby walls/surfaces and other frequencies down, is pretty brilliant. I also like the idea of how it tries to adapt to its location and boost certain frequencies accordingly.

    But at the end of the day, the HomePod is fundamentally limited by its physical size and I personally preferred the sound of streaming Apple Music through my component DAC in every aspect. The HomePod also has a rather goosed sound that is bass heavy, has some top rolloff, and has an odd emphasis, on what the software thinks, is the main vocals/instrumentation. I get what Apple is going for - they are trying to use software to provide extra definition and clarity in the midrange while allowing for some depth/fullness from the bass - but with a more traditional “hi-fi” system, you should be able to get that kind of warmth, fullness, and clarity without such a goosed response.

    While I did not stream Californion on the HomePods, I have streamed the album, using Apple Music, on my Mac. Unfortunately, all the compression/distortion problems I have with the album are still there :sigh:


    I am not sure I fully agree with this argument. In the case of Scar Tissue, the album Californication was released in 1999.....which not only predates both subscription based audio streaming and the HomePod by 10-20 years, but it even predates the rise of Napster and file sharing. Hence, the mastering used for Scar Tissue was absolutely optimized for CD (and radio). So by that argument, it should sound best on vintage rack based systems, not the HomePod.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  17. Orthogonian Blues

    Orthogonian Blues A man with a fork in a world full of soup.

    Location:
    London, UK
    Yeah maybe.

    Or maybe, Californication was ahead of its time.

    :cry:
     
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  18. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Just like Santana's last few albums. Squashed to hell. It's a real shame because he's finally making great music again but it's impossible to listen to.
     
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  19. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    We're not talking about bus compression. We're talking about mastering compression.

    This forum has been here for 18 years. I think it's time for Steve Hoffman to start teaching a whole new forum generation about sound quality.
     
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  20. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Naw! He's doing the 90s version of it. NOWIFHEWANTEDTOGIVEUSTHECURRENTVERSIONOFCOMPRESSIONTHISWOULDBEIT!
     
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  21. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    :biglaugh::uhhuh:
     
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  22. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Not only that, playing your highly-compressed master through a compressed format will make it sound much worse, or playing it on the radio will make it quieter which defeats the purpose of your trying to make it louder.
     
  23. scoutbb

    scoutbb Senior Member

    Location:
    LA
    Unlistenable!! That last one is really an ear-bleeder.
     
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  24. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    Unless your modern equipment can magically turn a DR5 streamed album into a DR10, this equipment in question that you are buying is more merely just providing okay-sound that is made for the average music listener who isn't obsessive about things and want everything to be audible thus over-compressing so each detail gets heard.

    Again not knocking you or anyone who digs it. However I believe very firmly, based on your posts that there is a basic core concept that is missing here and proving logical disconnect
     
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  25. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    I heard Scar Tissue on a HomePod system that my buddy/next door neighbor has specifically because of this thread just a few minutes ago, and how you can not hear the compression and stagnant volume is beyond me. As well as the clipping which is all over the place

    I can't speak to how you hear things, but if you are saying that you can't hear any of the sonic flaws of the mastering of Scar Tissue, even on HomePods, I feel like that says it all. I like streaming, and clearly you are here on some sort of pro-streaming crusade, but there is no logical way that we can dance around the issue that bad mastered music sounds un-dynamic no matter if you have modern or vintage gear
     
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