Why people prefer physical CD, over high-rez digital version of same release

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Turnaround, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. John

    John Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast
    Glad my experience matches up with yours. I have to say given your digitizing experience I think you may know more about such things than I do!
     
    Pentior likes this.
  2. Hammer70

    Hammer70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Anything over 50 minutes was examined for being bloated given that single album vinyl releases were usually around 42 minutes.

    By 1997, I could give you three artists that I really liked at the time that put out bloated releases: Blur (self titled) (56:53), Oasis - Be Here Now (71:33), U2 - Pop (60:09). Reviews I read at the time seemed to say the same thing. But Radiohead also put out OK Computer (53:21) in the same year, and everyone thought the time was well-used. In fact, they also released a sibling EP, Airbag/How Am I Driving? (25:34).

    In another post, I cited Erotica (75:24) by Madonna. R.E.M. stuck to the below 50-minute for Monster but then went to 65:33 for New Adventures in Hi-Fi (1996). I actually liked the album but I was not in the vast majority at that time who thought it “dragged”. To their credit, Pearl Jam remained concise in the 50-minute or below range. Not so much with Soundgarden had three straight albums between 57 and 75 minutes.

    So my premise being that single vinyl albums were less than 45 minutes, 50-52 would be reasonable for a CD. Anything above that and fans will decide if they think it was bloated or not.
     
  3. Rockhead

    Rockhead Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    OK, thanks. Personally, I would only call 65+ minute albums bloated (unless they're brilliant, which rarely is the case). One hour is usually not too much for me, but I wasn't used to vinyl which might be a factor.
     
  4. Hammer70

    Hammer70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    You raise an important point: AT THE TIME, these albums were considered bloated because of the connection to vinyl. Keeping in mind that double-LP vinyl was roughly 80-84 minutes, and were relatively rare. For STUDIO albums, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones all had one. The Who had two. Otherwise, all their albums were under 44 minutes.
     
  5. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    I like physical media.

    Hard drives, come and go and sometime Crash. Same thing with, thumb drives, DAP`s and SDcards.

    Not keen to have to PAY to have my media on the cloud.
     
    Bill Mac, markp and Tullman like this.
  6. Rockhead

    Rockhead Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    It took me years to adapt to the shortness of some classic albums like Black Sabbath or Machine Head. These days EPs are longer.
     
  7. Jam757

    Jam757 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Cool thread, enjoying reading all of everyone’s opinions. Absolutely vinyl and CDs all the way for me. I think I’ve only bought the MP3 downloads of things a few times and usually only when it’s impossible to find otherwise. I love curating my massive collection and cherish the artwork etc. I’ll certainly never under any circumstances purchase a high resolution file. I do enjoy my 1TB IPod Classic for the car and/or vacations. It’s awesome having the entire collection at my fingertips. I hate everything about Spotify with a passion as I feel people who are using that as their primary source are completely missing out. Vinyl and CDs all the way!!!
     
    Jmetamatic likes this.
  8. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Forum Resident

    This post being an example of that?
     
  9. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I listened to Bernie's interview and it sounds like they are talking about storage in a macro level there especially things such as masters for albums (he mentioned "if you wanted to store something for 100 years").

    I think in terms of practical applications, if we employ proper hard drive backup maintinence and maintain backups on a regular basis that shouldn't be an issue - digital audio files won't suddenly have issues like "oh its been 10 years, now this file will start having dropouts randomly on this well working computer", but rather "oh its been 10 years and this hard drive is starting to fail - good thing these files are backed up!"
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    CraigBic, Pentior and Grant like this.
  10. Grant

    Grant Back to the 60s!

    Location:
    United States
    Redundancy is good. Now, what I do is exercise my backups often, at the very least twice a year. That is supposed to eliminate data rot. Allegedly, over time, data loses its coercivity and wears. This may be what Bernie Grundman, you, and others have experienced. This means I read the data on a hard drive. In fact, there is a little utility that does this for you. I didn't install int on this current installation of Windows, and I don't recall the name of the program, but forum member @daglesj once posted a link to it. SSD shouldn't have the issue.
     
    Tullman likes this.
  11. Vox78

    Vox78 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cork
    Because you feel like you ‘own’ the album when you buy a cd/vinyl record.
     
  12. Gary_Stewart

    Gary_Stewart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The monetary value of any given thing is based on how much it get fetch in the open market. Therefore, high-res downloads have are worthless from the very moment they're sold for the first time, and worthless (monetarily) is what they will remain.
     
  13. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    So now I have to exercise my digital files. Oh boy.....
     
  14. Mbd77

    Mbd77 Forum Penetrator

    Location:
    London
    You people are nuts.
     
  15. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Eternal Champion, Master of the Universe

    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    The "it feels like you own it if you get the CD" intrigues me. I mean, those of you into video gaming - doesn't almost everyone now download games rather than buy them on physical media? Do you not feel you own the game if you download it? Same with apps. I use various photo editing and raw conversion software for my photography, like Phase One Capture One. I just download it, same with Adobe products, when I purchase it. I don't feel like I don't own it because I don't have a DVD or set of DVDs with it on. Sometimes I buy a movie from Sky and it downloads to my Sky TV box - I don't have the DVD or Blu-ray but I still own the movie. Now I get the argument about artwork, etc., but tbh nothing competes with a proper gatefold album on vinyl for that anyway - a CD doesn't come close for artwork. Folks also banging on about losing music downloads. How/why ?? Storage is so cheap. Either cloud or physical backup. I can't help thinking that most folks who have a negative attitude to downloads mainly do so because their hi fi rig is not geared towards playing downloads, or at least it doesn't sound as good in their rig as CD or vinyl, but that's usually because they haven't invested as heavily in digital download playback/streaming as they have in vinyl or CD playback
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  16. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Hey you are posting on a forum that has more Beatles threads than members joined, so we are all competing for the most least amount of sanity here :D
     
    Pentior likes this.
  17. Pentior

    Pentior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Oh, I don't think so :) You had many hours of relaxed listening, with friends on the same task and it sounds very enjoyable. I would never get my friends to do such fine-tuned comparisons :D Instead, I rushed through to find a way that sounds best to me, and felt quite unsure about whether I was illusional. You are the first person to describe these things concretely; most statements are something like: "It just sounds deeper", or "the added bit-depth makes it so smooth"
     
  18. DaveShakey

    DaveShakey Active Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I also buy (and sell) physical video games.
    It takes a special kind of wealthy to buy games digitally, which is usually more expensive and also means you can never sell them. On an individual level it seems like a significant economic waste that can easily be negated.
    Apps are different - not art, tools for continuous use, and you would rarely/never need to sell them.
     
  19. Many of us prefer having a tangible physical object whose accessibility doesn’t depend on the whims and fortunes of some corporation or regular backups, and most of us can’t tell the difference sonically anyway.
     
  20. mecano

    mecano Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens Greece
    Because people like to own stuff and hold them in their hands.Its only natural.There is a special enjoyment in buying and owing a record (or CD).
     
    Giobacco, Pentior and CraigBic like this.
  21. Pentior

    Pentior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Great point about the games. Getting and having CDs of older albums can be nice for reasons depicted here:

    In general there are different people with different approaches. I have several CDs of albums I greatly admire, but never would it seem reasonable to me to have ALL my music as physical. Of course, I own downloaded music, games and such.
    It probably depends on your reliance on symbolism. The physical entity in your room (e.g. a single CD) resembles the non-physical piece of music, additionally to its function (playing the music), which you could do in other ways. This physical entity only resembles this one piece of music. You can portray it on your shelf, hold it into your friends' faces, sell it, trash it. Also it shows you and your friends that you really like this thing.
    Some people enjoy this symbolism (I surely do for some albums), some don't. Other example: Some of these christian people feel like they want a cross hanging around their neck or on their kitchen's wall, some don't need this and feel just as spiritful.

    I never felt the need to own boxes/discs of video games and software. Since these are interactive and games unfold their story around you with your active actions, "the journey" feels 100% personal by default.
     
  22. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Eternal Champion, Master of the Universe

    Location:
    Surrey, UK

    Nicely put ! And I do get it. I was there in the 70s and 80s as a child and teenager eagerly going to the local record store on album release day, buying singles too. And looking in awe at the awesome album covers and gatefolds. To me that really was worth holding in your hand - those amazing album covers of progressive rock bands like Yes for example, with the Roger Dean artwork. In some ways I wish I had kept my vinyl but needs must and times were hard and storage tricky as the collection got big. I've actually kept all my CDs, even though I have them all ripped and play them via an Innuos server that sits in my hi fi rig. I still buy box sets like the Jethro Tull Steven Wilson boxes, Abbey Road stuff etc. But only when they come with nice books and artwork.
     
  23. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Or perhaps you should calm down a little? I don't know why this bothers you so much. The very opening sentences in your original post asked: "How do you find it on a shelf of 5000 CD’s? I’d think that would be more daunting." It is this that is being replied to.

    In fact, the ENTIRE post being replied to was this:

    "How do you find it on a shelf of 5000 CD’s? I’d think that would be more daunting. But let’s think I thought it was a certain artist or album? I could search on that in seconds. Probably try out any number of tracks to see if I’m right, while you’re still working your index finger amongst that sea of jewel cases."

    No mention of humming a tune, just searching through a library. Sheesh.

    Tim's original response asked about finding an unknown tune - but that is not what was being replied to. Still, your point is a solution looking for a problem. How often do I think of tune that I can't identify with a little brain power? It's hardly a compelling problem, is it? Besides, people who own CD"s have access to the same resources you do..............
     
    22 ziggies likes this.
  24. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Hey, it's actually very rare in this day and age. Just because it could happen doesn't mean it will. Modern operating systems have things built-in to correct these types of errors auto-magically. By it's very nature NTFS (used in Windows) has a journal it keeps to roll back changes, etc. It's really not something I remotely think about any more. Complete disc failure is far more likely to be a problem .

    [GEEK ALERT]

    Here's another tip for people with huge file stores - think carefully about the size of the discs used, you could be cheating yourself. When you format a drive (or receive a pre-formatted drive in say, NTFS), the drive is actually broken up into what are known as clusters. This is done by default. The larger the hard disk, the larger the Cluster. So for example, 4Gb to 8Gb has a cluster size of 8KB. Anything over 32Gb has a cluster size of 64KB.

    Now, this is important, because it dictates how much data the disc will actually store. This is because, for peek efficiency, you want Clusters to be as full as possible. A specific Cluster belongs to one, and only one file - it's simply how file systems work. So, if you have a file that is 8KB in size, it would take up one Cluster on a 4Gb drive. A file that is 12KB would take up TWO Clusters, one with 8KB of data in it, and the other with 4KB of data. This effectively wastes 4KB of space. On a drive larger than 32Gb, that 8KB file will consume one cluster of 128KB. That is, that 128KB cluster would have 12KB of data, and 116KB of, effectively, wasted space.

    So - if you really wanted to dig into it, if you have a lot of small files, it's better to have a smaller cluster size. Huge files benefit from larger cluster sizes, but with more wasted space. You can control the cluster size at the time the disc is formatted. So for example, if you have a 32GB drive, and it's full - you could back the data up, reformat the drive using 8KB cluster size, and then restore the data to it. You'll find you now have some of that lost space back, the amount of which depends on all the files sizes, so varies.

    Don't forget to defragment your drives for peek efficiency (a defrag is actually a process where clusters that are related are moved alongside each other, or what is known as "contiguous" for peek efficiency). If a drive is so badly fragmented that the defrag takes many many hours, then back it up, format the drive, and do a restore. The restore effectively defrags it as the data is being written.

    Man oh man, it's been 100 years since I thought of this stuff............ :D
     
    Pentior likes this.
  25. Hammer70

    Hammer70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Ha ha, many of us will tell you that we have large parts of our collection that are actually worth less than zero. Even back in the nineties when CD was the only game in town, I was always disappointed at how little I’d get for my discs in used CD shops.

    But sure, I’ve got a bunch of gold discs that at some point I’ll put up for bid to the crazy collectors on Discogs.
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine