Why weren't the Raspberries bigger?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by no opera star, Oct 5, 2011.

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  1. Comet01

    Comet01 Forum Resident

  2. applebonkerz

    applebonkerz Senior Member

    They are another group I can see why the rest of the country ignored them. That local adoration was always very misplaced IMO. When their songs came on the radio it was an immediate station switcher for me.
     
  3. applebonkerz

    applebonkerz Senior Member

    These samples sure aren't winning me over. Do you have any with Wally being the central performer for the whole song?
     
  4. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    There are two Mellotrons (and two players) - no idea who they were though.

    :)
     
  5. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Any fans of the group should track down an original copy of the vinyl greatest hits album, which has some of best and most extensive liner notes of all time...Even if you have all the music elsewhere, the liners are worth having...
     
  6. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Not only that - but as mentioned here previously - side one gives you a 1-2-3-4 slam of unrelentingly great songs !
     
  7. coleman

    coleman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    +1 for "Overnight Sensation." Just an absolutely perfect song from start to finish. An all-time favorite of mine.
     
  8. dgsinner

    dgsinner New Member

    Location:
    Far East
    When I think back to those years ('72, '73), I remember my friends and I liking those songs, but we thought the albums had far too many ballads...we just didn't like Let's Pretend and all that.

    I was a huge Beach Boys fan then and heard the references, but just thought if ballads are what I want then I'll head for the real deal (Brian Wilson).

    And as others have mentioned, those suits...

    But the rockers...and Overnight Sensation...classic.
    That combination of Beatles/Beach Boys/Who/Small Faces sensibilities (and overt "riff-dropping" like name-dropping) made for some great rock.

    Still like it.

    Dale

    Great clip:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFUYm5QFUE&feature=related

    Another great clip -- from 2005:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDbWRP_D_uw&feature=related

    Amazing -- I'll bet a lot bands and singers whose heyday was 30+ years ago wish they could still sound as good as Carmen and the band sound here.
     
  9. Jon Busey-Hunt

    Jon Busey-Hunt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Let's Pretend, though, is gorgeous. Listen again now!!
     
  10. dgsinner

    dgsinner New Member

    Location:
    Far East
    Yep. And Carmen's falsetto wail near-perfectly channels ca. 1964 Brian Wilson. Think "Don't Back Down."

    Dale
     
  11. apple-richard

    apple-richard *Overnight Sensation*

    This song is Raspberries 4 part harmony at their best. Heartbreaking lead vocals and another one of those killer middle eights. Live vocals in the studio over backing tracks below from the Flipside Show.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTELLAzVtxg
     
  12. Pureprairie1972

    Pureprairie1972 New Member

    Location:
    USA Heartland
    Jeff Hutton.

    He was hired as a side musician for live performances.
     
  13. willy

    willy hooga hagga hooga

    Perhaps because they were bland.
     
  14. DCW

    DCW been a-boogeyin' since I ditched the stroller.

    That is probably accurate.

    However, from the point-of-view of a little grade school kid, they seemed very "big" to me at the time. The older girls in my neighborhood blasted the Raspberries albums out their bedroom windows. My Grandma kept "The Mike Douglas Show" on in the living room, and they seemed to almost be like a "house band" for a while. My older cousin's "Tiger Beat" mags had a steady flow of cheezy Raspberries photos.

    My memory is that I heard The Raspberries, Badfinger, and Pilot on the radio quite a bit, but Big Star only once (but, damn, how could you ever forget "When My Baby's Beside Me", even after just one listen?).

    Of course they were dismissed as Teen fodder in their day, but they worked hard to cultivate that audience.

    . . . but here's what separates them from that post-Davy Jones Teenybop milieu of their original time . . .

    If you grew up to be a songwriter, you realized that Eric Carmen was, and still probably is, unstoppable. Not only are the hooks unassailable, they remain so even though the chord changes supporting them are often crazily numerous and challenging, which is contrary to the proven Brill Building model of keeping the stuctures simple and easy for anyone to duplicate and perform. He'd bring all of that rigorous child conservatory training to bear on a Pop song, and the song would come out a bit non-standard to the casual ear, but it still got the girls to swoon (well, probably more than that, but I'm more comfortable with euphamism here).

    Then, there's Wally. Most "Tiger Beat" faves didn't have a resident Ted Nugent. He also had great commercial songwriting instincts. "Last Dance" is still a fave song, and a lot of his writing on "Choir Practice" is phenomenal. He's my favorite Ric-12 player, after McGuinn.

    Nor did most Teenybop bands have a Bonfanti. That drumming was awfully raw for a band selling that sort of image.

    One of the best Raspberries songs is "Hard to Get Over a Heartbreak", so, even if you got irritated at his botched attempts to be some sort of Lakes Region Glenn Frey, Smalley, for that contribution alone, was indispensible.

    Then again, without Scott McCarl, you wouldn't have had the hottest slab of great rock 'n roll the 'berries ever did, "Play On" (arguable the only "Road Song" ever written that doesn't suck), nor would "Starting Over" be the entertaining sui generis, straight-ahead, plain vanilla (which I mean in the most respsctful way possible) rock album that it is. "Starting Over" is the reason why car stereos were invented!!

    The Raspberries remain embedded in our consciousness because, long after "Tiger Beat" and "The Midnight Special" moved on to Leif Garrett and Shaun Cassidy (whose biggest hits were written by Eric Carmen), it's easier to see that the band was a powerhouse, filled with real, chop-equipped rock 'n roll players with the earned solidity of a great bar band, and multiple good songwriters,

    Last year, I bought those Japanese import CD's at ridiculous prices-and they were worth every last penny. No apologies. No regrets.

    The Raspberries are big. Maybe not as famous as they should be, but there are a lot of songwriters out there today who displayed their influence in the 1990's "Alt-Scrunge" era, and brought the skills obtained by emulating and covering them to modern commercial songwriting. You can't tell me that gourmet celebrity songwriters like Andy Sturmer, Dan Wilson or Butch Walker didn't absorb Raspberries albums. It has to be part of what got the first out of the country to become the Phil Spector of "J-Pop" and cartoon themes, the second out of the obscure, small audience uber-cleverness of Trip Shakespeare, and the latter out of a hair metal ghetto with Southgang.

    Yes, Virginia, there is a Raspberries.

    Do I get post-graduate credit for this?:laugh:
     
  15. telliott

    telliott Senior Member

    I got the 2 Power Pop volumes when they were in stores in the 90s. Not too expensive for imports. When ripping the tracks to my computer, I split them up into their respective albums, with proper album art. I also added the 2 hidden track radio commercials from the Capitol Collector's Series CD as bonus tracks.

    Great stuff,
    Tim
     
  16. greelywinger

    greelywinger Osmondia

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    The Raspberries - Last Dance

    Darryl
     
  17. power popper

    power popper Forum Resident

    Absolutely. Many thanks, DCW, for a well-measured, thought-provoking post -- the kind I also try to write and enjoy reading, too. Kudos as well to apple-richard and others here for some choice commentary on one of my all-time faves, and to no opera star for starting the topic. After weeks of exhaustive -- and exhausting -- threads of Pink Floyd geekery (while admitting my own participation in some of them), I needed a bit of discussion on the joys of a finely written pop song. Soundscapes are fine, but songs are forever.
     
  18. Comet01

    Comet01 Forum Resident

  19. Comet01

    Comet01 Forum Resident

    Besides Jeff Hutton, it looks like Scott McCarl is playing mellotron.
     
  20. apple-richard

    apple-richard *Overnight Sensation*

    Thanks! I also got carried away in the Pink Floyd buzz of late. :laugh:

    I was "ripe for the picking" when Go All The Way came out, 12 years old and needed a Beatles/Beach Boys fix. The Beatles had broken up and The Beach Boys 60s albums had all gone out of print. Hello Pickwick silly LP comps with cheesy covers, Wow! Great Concert anyone?

    I bought the debut LP on cassette, picked up I Wanna Be With You and Let's Pretend 45s at a juke box warehouse in my town. Didn't get Side 3 right away as too many solo Beatles 45s and LPs came out in 73, my lawn mowing money only went so far. I bought the Rolling Stone issue with The Beatles lunch box on the cover and it had an ad and a review for Starting Over in it. No store in my local area carried the album so I had to special order it. The album arrived two weeks later and I was totally smitten with the whole record. It also came with a cool mini poster inside. In 76 the Best of LP came out (to Capitolize on Carmen's at the time pretty hot solo career)and had at that time the best liner notes ever written for an LP. In 1977 their albums started showing up in the cutout bins. I got Fresh the LP and 8 track and Side 3 8 track for $2.99 each. My buddy Mike sent me the Side 3 LP in 1988. I love the band and always will. Nothing wrong with perfect radio friendly pop songs in my book.

    DCW great post!

    Power Popper like your Avatar! I have the DVD, a fum watch along with American Pop. :thumbsup:

    The Starting Over poster. No more matching suits for these guys.
     

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  21. DCW

    DCW been a-boogeyin' since I ditched the stroller.

    Thanks much. Was supposed to be brief, but got carried away; however, it made me realize that I had given the mystery of the Raspberries' supposed "Failure" a lot of thought over the past four years. Certainly more thought than someone who is considered to be an experimental "noise" guitarist would be expected to give.

    It's certainly a mystery worth exploring, and it's always nice to know that you're not alone in your assertions.

    Thanks to you all for the thread, and the great commentary and info!!
     
  22. Pizza

    Pizza With extra pepperoni

    Location:
    USA
    I gotta agree with Clive Davis on this one and I'm a fan. This song "drives me crazy" and not in a good way. Pretty forgettable.
     
  23. apple-richard

    apple-richard *Overnight Sensation*

    I believe Boardwalk Baby would have made a nice followup to Make Me Lose Control. The fact that Carmen didn't have an album ready when Make Me Lose Control came out and went top 3 was bad timing on his part. Seems to be a common factor running through his career, bad timing
     
  24. Pureprairie1972

    Pureprairie1972 New Member

    Location:
    USA Heartland
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